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Positional system against KID?


  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #21

    JosefJB

    This thread is about the OP wanting a system AS WHITE vs the KID.

    He wants a positional system which aims to limit Black's counterplay on the K-side.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #22

    Yaroslavl

    melvernboy wrote:

    Is there any line that doesn't allow black to have fun in the kingside? Or if black insists on kingside attack it won't be as effective?

    ____________________

    The Fianchetto Variation is a solid line where it is difficult for Black to obtain active play. The normal plan,for Black, of attacking on the kingside is no longer playable in the early stages of the game. There are basically 2 reasons why Black's plan will not work. First the White B on g2 gives the White K extra protection. Second, different from other lines, White will not block the center. That leaves Black attacking on the Kingside flank when the center is still fluid. It is well known that attacking on the flank when the center is unblocked is a risky business, and usually doomed to failure because the defender can counterattack in the center.

    White's basic plan in the Fianchetto Variation is to:

    1. stifle Black's active play.

    2. (THIS IS THE POSITIONAL PART) gradually use his space advantage.

    The only problem with the Fianchetto Variation is that if you are up against a strong opponent he will know to transpose into the Gruenfeld.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #23

    melvernboy

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Now looking into the Makogonov and Fianchetto variation.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #24

    Schevenadorf

    Averbakh variation is incredible for frustrating black players. In almost all variations, black never gets started on a kingside attack. Seriously, they must hate it due to the slower play it provides and prophylactic ideas from white. To get a starting idea of it, look at the database of course. If you find you like it, pick up "A Practical White Repertoire 2" by Korneev (I think I spelled the name right). On top of the Averbakh, you also get reccomendations for the Grunfeld, Modern, and Pirc defenses.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #25

    Yohan_Saboba

    Although I (a KID player) am not too perturbed by the Averbakh and other positional systems because I play the Caro-Kann as black against 1. e4.

    It's kinda funny, usually KID players play a Modern or Pirc, and Caro-Kann players play a Slav or Semi-Slav. Guess I'm just weird :P

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #26

    JosefJB

    Not being perturbed by the Averbach or other positional systems has nothing to do with you being a Caro_Kann player.  

    Not being perturbed could be because you know what to do versus those systems and you are well prepared.

    Caro_Kann positions have nothing in common at all with typical KID positions.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #28

    Yohan_Saboba

    Right, but what I'm saying is that I'm comfortable in both sharp positions (think Classical KID and Bayonet Attack) and slower maneuvering positions (think Classical Caro-Kann and Caro-Kann Short's System). Therefore, I'm not perturbed by the idea of playing slowly in the KID.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #29

    JosefJB

    Right, but still, positional caro-kann will not prepare you or make you feel at ease with a positional KID.  They, the positions,  are too different for this point to make sense.

    If you made a statement such as "I play the Benoni so these systems are ok with me" , that would make sense.

    I hope that clears up what I mean.

    IM pfren  

    ...

    A quiet and not-so-harmless system is 2.Nf3 followed by g3, and postponing c2-c4 for a while, or completely. I have played many games as white, including some fine wins- and losses (plus a draw against Loek van Wely, since my technique was not good enough to win a piece-up endgame --- DOH!).} 

    If I am not mistaken, this system is advocated by GM Gallagher in his awesome book "A cunning repertoire (for White) "

     

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #31

    konhidras

    i guess play the barry attack. although i havent met that yet as black in my KID games.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #32

    JosefJB

    pfren wrote:

    I can't even think about Gallagher writing a book on such a quiet system. 

    Yes, it is confirmed.  My memory is not that bad as I might have thought.  GM Gallagher does indeed recommend that system, the fianchetto, but he does NOT play the c-pawn automatically or upfront.

    He selects continuations on the system based on how Black reacts.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #33

    Sred

    pfren wrote:

    I can't even think about Gallagher writing a book on such a quiet system. You possibly mean the new Gambit book by Graham Burgess, which I do not own.

    Excellent coverage of that system is done in the first installment of Kotronias' KID series on Quality Chess- but only KID schemes are examined, and (mainly) from Black's perspective.

    Gallagher has even written a book on the Caro-Kann, for whatever reason.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #35

    bongcloudftw

    gallagher published a book on the caro kann, pretty damn sure he also published something in the KID for white-don't know what it is though.

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #36

    richie_and_oprah

    systems in which white keeps the e pawn on e3 tend to be rather positional and tricky for the normal kid hacker  ... very underrated system and not a plethora of materials here

  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #38

    richie_and_oprah

    pfren wrote:
    richie_and_oprah wrote:

    systems in which white keeps the e pawn on e3 tend to be rather positional and tricky for the normal kid hacker  ... very underrated system and not a plethora of materials here

    True, and this is also an excellent Anti-Grunfeld system (white just postpones developing the c3 knight). But Black can opt for the third option: A Benoni, when a bishop on c1 with a pawn on e3 is rather clumsy-looking. Or white may leave his pawn on d4, but objectively speaking, he has no hopes of an advantage in the resulting tempo-up reversed QGD Tarrasch.

    indeed, but this is what makes it fun, trying to out manuever through these transpo-possibilitles to get the structures we desire  Laughing


  • 7 weeks ago · Quote · #39

    pellik

    melvernboy wrote:

    Is there any line that doesn't allow black to have fun in the kingside? Or if black insists on kingside attack it won't be as effective?

    The g3 lines are described using these exact phrases, but of course there are tradeoffs such has how you handle the benoni. Also, the g3 lines are not exactly light on theory for white. 

    The Gligoric system (7.Be3) can also fulfill these requirements to some extent. Instead of castling white spends the move reinforcing the center. It's still a complicated game after 7...Ng4 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bh4 (but not Bd2/c1 where Nc6 10.d5 Nd4 gives equality) g5 10.Bg3, but white is still under less pressure then normal main lines. Far more likely however is that black will either entice d5 with Nc6 and start his king side attack before white has castled (white scores 90+% in the database here), or black will prepare f5 while white hasn't played d5 and the center will open with black's king exposed. 


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