3...Be6 (not 4...Be6) has historically been dubbed a patzer's move, and yet engines love it and make it look fully playable!
I still believe it's a patzer's move, but one that take tremendous accuracy to combat.
3...Be6 (not 4...Be6) has historically been dubbed a patzer's move, and yet engines love it and make it look fully playable!
I still believe it's a patzer's move, but one that take tremendous accuracy to combat.
Wow cool article
And ya I know computers dont evaluate openings well. Considering Be6 was given as the best move after e3. But I did go 10 or so more into a much of variations trying to refute the move and I couldnt. Maybe I shouldve gone a little deeper but after 15 or so moves and the evaluation still 0.2 guess the opening is a success? Without risk at all it seems as well?
Yeah I almost posted that line too lol. Personally I would welcome Be6, just looks really awkward for black down the road.
hayabusahayate16 wrote:
hayabusahayate16 wrote:
5.Bxc4 Bxc4 6.Qa4+
woops ...b5 and whites just down a piece. exoected some simple refutation to such a move but it seems just normal development will give white an adequate edge.
Here's what normal, basic development got me. Played to quickly connect rooks to 'complete' development, let the computer play its moves. Even with all that work black still has to do its saying -0.07. And considering I ended up playing the engine in the game I mentioned in the OP, playing somewhat similar, I got crushed. Mind you I did get a little pissed off and lashed out with b4 in a different position, it got me the two bishops in an IQP position and I still had no play.
I think it's fine for white because the point of ...Be6 is obviously to try and hold the pawn but because of the waste of tempo white can simply play e4 when black will eventually need to move the bishop and allow white to recapture the c4 pawn.
e4 wastes a tempo after the e3 variation so why would I play that. This is why I asked for help from stronger players. The pawn can easily be recaptured with the simple Na3 at any point anyway. So I dont see what your point is
Also, white still has an edge after the variation you've posted because blacks position is completely passive, he's almost in a sort of zugzwang on the queenside and his e6 bishop is just in his way. Since he's played ...h6 and weakened his kingside its going to be tough for him to finish development and castle because a fianchetto development would be further weakening to the kingside and staying in the center is suicide because of your mobile pawn center which you should think about pushing fairly soon. In other words, you lost the game due to later mistakes and shouldn't accuse your opponent for engine use because its pretty silly since he didnt play much like and engine through the first 10 moves. Why not post the entire game so your later mistakes can be analysed?
cause youre a fuckin clown. how many posts do you have in here and your first post was a blunder? ya. the whole point of the post was to see what people thought about the engine giving this as an equal position or even better for black. any half brain can see the position is cramped and the Be6 is fuckin retarded, thus why I posted the topic since the kid used an engine against me and after my own analysis it turns out I had no play against this. why dont you check it out yourself before you make yourself look even more like a self obsessed jackass.
for the record, since you cant read. i smashed open with b4 to give myself the two bishops since i didnt realize the kid had an engine against me at that point and was getting annoyed, thought itd just outplay him in an open game. i was worse after that. it was on another site, lichess, where you can mess around without signing up, so there is no record. so i have no reason to acuse someone of using an engine unless its painfully obvious, since rating, or the win in general, means nothing
its idiots like you why i dont post on this site anymore. you can woop me? bring it on sweetheart. now get the fuck off this thread since you already ruined it
funny thing is robert is right. c5 and black has plenty of play. idiot
@OP, what engine you using? I let stockfish run to depth 20 and it doesn't give black equality after Be6. 0.38 before Be6 0.60 after Be6.
be6 is known to be playable....has been for centuries. but its not the way most humans would prefer to play. white jsut ends up with a little too much compensation for the pawn.
but yeah its a good line ot remind people of when they claim the queens gambit is not a gambit...which is a cliche and false idea.
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This is not a true statement. ECO gives White a ± after 3.e3 Be6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Nc3 c6 6.a4 g6 7.e4.
Glenn Flear, in his book on the QGA before computers took over the world (1994), wrote that 5.Na3 ("which amounts to the same thing, but is logical and more convincing") c5 6.Bxc4 (6.dxc5 ECO) 7.Nxc4 e6 8.0-0 Nc6 9.Nce5 Qd5 10.Qa4 ("White simply uses his lead in development to provoke weaknesses") a6 11.Nxc6 b5 12.Qc2 Qxc6 13.a4! b4 14.Bd2 ("bringing his pieces out with tempo)... and so on. (The Queen's Gambit Accepted by Glenn Flear, p.138.)
Here it is in diagram form:
A word on ECO evaluations. If White has a ± at the end of the last line of a variation, it means the line is busted. The 1976 edition of ECO suggests that Be6 is busted. That particular evaluation was provided by Matulovic and Krnic, but Taimanov and Polugaevsky also worked on the QGA section. They almost certainly agreed with that assessment or else they would have asked to flesh it out.
So short story to why Im even posting this. Ran into a kid using an engine against me(was easy to see after about 20 moves, shouldve known after he whipped out this move at move 3 though). So after I got grinded through a computer endgame and inevitably stomped, I busted out a database and my engine to see if I had chances anywhere. Turns out i really didnt.....
Can some stronger players help me out here? I went on chessbase quick and was looking at just normal moves with their engine(fritz 14 apparently) and the engine has it barely going over 0.2 after this odd move. Turns out the idea is to just throw the bishop on d5 and develop normally? I understand I got ran over by an engine but if equality is this easy after move 3 I'll change my whole d4 repertoire.....