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Ok, these may be some dumb questions, but I havnt played much of the QGD before.1)Why is the exchange variation so feared and considered critical?2)Apparently you can avoid it after 1.d4 nf6 2.c4 e6 3.nf3 d5 but I dont understand how, cant white still just exchange?I could find any exact answers to these after a google search, all the answers seemed somewhat vague.
QGD Exchange Var is a pain for Black IMHO because White can launch a "minority attack" on the Q-side without making any concessions there or anyplace else on the bd, and Black is liable to end up with a backward c-pawn on a semi-open file (semi-open for White not Black that is)
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 N8-d7 5.cd5 ed5 is optimal for White because Black's QB is hemmed in by the QN. Of course White can exchange whenever he/she feels like it but if the Black QB isn't hemmed in by Nd7 Black is better off than in the line I give above.
Since your'e a diamond member go to the video library and look up QGD videos and most likely you may find one or more on this exact line.
PS: Do you plan on playing this as White or defending as Black? You might get better answers if you make this minor pt clear.
Thanks for the reply,I was intending it from the black side, though I was considering combining QGD with a nimzo, which apparently 'avoids' or at least makes it more favourable for black. The hemming in makes sense, however in the nimzo move order nf6-e6-d5 this doesnt happen, so im wondering why it isnt so good for white.
1)Why is the exchange variation so feared and considered critical?2)Apparently you can avoid it after 1.d4 nf6 2.c4 e6 3.nf3 d5 but I dont understand how, cant white still just exchange?
1) Largely because Black has no clue about meeting it properly.
2) The Exchange variation has very little punch after an early Nf3, as Black can successfully deploy the c8 bishop. It also allows Black playing the Ragozin, but this is a different beast.
What nimzo move order? Spell it out move by move. BTW I recommend you learn QGD and/or QGA ahead of any single QP openings, based on my own dim "authority" and also on something posted by estragon, a very strong and knowledgable player here.
You can't avoid every single permutation of a QGD exchange var as Black no matter what you do but if you're that worried about (and maybe you should be, it's a grim line for Black IMHO) just play 4...Be7 and start learning either the Orthodox, Lasker or Tartakower Defense. OR start playing the QGA or a Slav Defense.
Thanks pfren@nimzo, what I mean was 1.d4 nf6 2.c4 e6 now if Nc3, nimzo, if Nf3, QGD. I had seen a few comments alluding to this move order being a deterent of the exchange variation, but they didnt really elaborate on this.
IMO there's not much to be feared in the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 move order as well. Both 3...Be7 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bf4 c6 and 3...Nf6 4.cd5 ed5 5.Bg5 c6 are OK for Black, but he must understand what he's aiming at. In general, I think 3...Nf6 is simpler/ easier to handle, although less ambitious than 3...Be7.
alright, thanks, I think ill take 3..nf6 and head for a lasker if possible
WHat are the plans for black in this set up?
What are the plans for black in this setup?
I am a semi slav player preffering the ...2 e6 move order for black in order to avoid the slav exchange.
I have three options
1.Learn the line above(QGD Charousek variation)
2.Employ the pure slav move order with ..2. c6? and just face the slav exchange?
3.Face the Carlsbad set up with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6
What is wrong with 2...e6 and 3...c6 if you are a semi-slav player?
Sure enough you have to memorize some theory in the Marshall Gambit, but currently white has not proved any advantage.
I just dont prefer Marshall gambit.It's too much theory based
Yes, it has quite a bit of theory, and since the resulting positions are sharp, memorizing lines is necessary.
Can white force some drawing lines in the Marshall gambit?If not,I might consider adopting it.But I heard black really needs to memorize more than white?And i think it's more dangerous for black.White makes a mistake and you still have to grind out the winning moves.Black makes a mistake and his king might get the death sentence
white cant really force it into drawing lines, although i never faced it often, so most of 'the triangle system' marshall section was left unread by me.So maybe there are a few endgamish lines, but i thin youd be pretty safe, besides its rarely played at my level, and those people dont seem to know much anyway.
whats your rating btw, because it may be a different story for you
yes,yes the exchange var is to be feared but the strategy and tactics is way to much to go into detail about right now,maybe layer,cheers U-b ...but i can say that its not the normal simple straight Q-side minority...chess is more complex than that now
Im not rated but Im not really a beginner.I havent played here.I just want the forums in here.I just enjoy improving my game
ok, well my guess is youll almost never meet the marshall, and if you do they wont follow mainline for more than 4 moves, so its not a big deal.
To anyone interested in the QGD, there is a new group! http://www.chess.com/groups/home/queens-gambit-declined-defenders
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