Reti?

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22nd August 2007, 05:27pm
#1
by tony23
Riverside, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 77

I'm wondering if anyone uses or is familiar with the Reti opening, or variations on that? I don't see much mention in the forum here, and it actually took some effort to dig up the name.

 

In the diagram, white is using something like the Ruy Lopez (I think), where black uses a variation on Reti. I doubt I'd play either side out like this, but I just wanted to illustrate the position.

 

I used to use the e4 opening a lot, until I hooked up with a chess club in the late 80's. After that I picked up this opening and have used it fairly often. It seems to create a rather strong defense, but is a bit weak on the offense.

 

What are your thoughts on it? 

 

 

22nd August 2007, 05:29pm
#2
by tony23
Riverside, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 77

Oops - here's the diagram!

22nd August 2007, 06:10pm
#3
by knetfan
Leonia, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 95

The most obvious problem for White is that his second move allows Black to capture the e-pawn with his knight.  Black has no pawn structure deficiencies this early in the game, so accepting the pawn should not pose a problem with accurate play.

It is a bit awkward to think of each color playing a separate opening.  In your example, neither side is playing a "Ruy Lopez" or a "Reti" opening.  Instead, if any label is going to be applied, the opening is an "Alekhine's Defense" played in a somewhat closed style because of Black's choices of moves.  You might want to casually read through some general openings manuals to focus on the distinction between "open" and "closed" positions.  I think you will gain quite a bit of intuition that way.

If you want to look at some specific opening variations, examine the "King's Indian Attack" lines against the Sicilian Defence and other Black defences to see how one color (White in this case) can establish solid positions with a closed character in almost any setting. 

22nd August 2007, 07:02pm
#4
by Patzer24
United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 8557
I think you are a bit confused. The Reti is 1. Nf3, also there is the Barcza system of the Reti which is when white plays Nf3, g3, Bg2 as the opening set-up.
22nd August 2007, 08:02pm
#5
by tony23
Riverside, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 77
MattHelfst wrote: I think you are a bit confused. The Reti is 1. Nf3, also there is the Barcza system of the Reti which is when white plays Nf3, g3, Bg2 as the opening set-up.

 OK - I'll admit that I don't know my openings - especially what they're called. I thought for the longest time that what black does in this was the Sicilian defense (obviously it's not). I've been playing for a long time, but never really 'studied' the game - the last thing I read on chess was "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess", about 25 years ago.

 

I called it 'Reti' after looking around for a similar opening sequence, and that was the closest I found. I am interested in learning the different openings and what they're called, if nothing else so that I can discuss them without looking like an idiot.

 

But to be honest, in this particular case, I am more interested in the whys of this particular defense for black vs. something more traditional like the e4/e5 move - or perhaps if white were to open with the moves I outlined. It was almost all I saw in the late 80's in my college chess club, and that's where I picked up the idea. I'm trying to understand the choice of one vs. the other, and was hoping to do that via a discussion.

 

Maybe I should just go study on my own for awhile. I honestly haven't felt this stupid in decades.

23rd August 2007, 06:55am
#6
by Patzer24
United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 8557
No, don't be discouraged. The openings can get confusing and there are so many that even GMs cannot master all of the openings that exist. It is good for you to ask questions, that is the best way to learn.  Smile
23rd August 2007, 09:13am
#7
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Just to make it clear to you, the reti is a highly transpostional opening that can lead into any number of other openings.  I am rather fond of it because you can into anything from a symmetrical english to queen's gambit, to london system, colle system, barzca system, Catalan, and sometimes King's Indian Attack or Sicilian.  It allows you for the most part to choose where your going so don't feel stupid.  It's just one of those things that take a long time to learn and feel comfortable with. Here I will post a little something on each opening I mentioned in the following comments.
23rd August 2007, 09:17am
#8
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Symmetrical English
23rd August 2007, 09:19am
#9
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Queen's Gambit Declined/ Accepted
23rd August 2007, 09:28am
#10
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
London System
23rd August 2007, 09:33am
#11
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Colle System
23rd August 2007, 09:36am
#12
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Barzca System
23rd August 2007, 09:39am
#13
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Catalan
23rd August 2007, 09:43am
#14
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
King's Indian Attack
23rd August 2007, 09:46am
#15
by erad1288
VA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
Sicilian
23rd August 2007, 03:26pm
#16
by tony23
Riverside, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 77

I think one of the problems I'm having is that there are so many variations on each basic opening. I tried looking around some more and found something that looked like what I did called the Pirc Defense, but when I looked up Pirc Defense, it didn't look anything like that...

 

How do you learn the openings? Or do you stick with a certain set of openings and learn to vary them as needed?

 

BTW, the reason I said I felt stupid was because my research was lacking - badly. I usually don't blow it like that, even if I don't fully understand what I'm talking about. 

24th August 2007, 03:17pm
#17
by knetfan
Leonia, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 95
tony23 wrote:

I think one of the problems I'm having is that there are so many variations on each basic opening. I tried looking around some more and found something that looked like what I did called the Pirc Defense, but when I looked up Pirc Defense, it didn't look anything like that...

How do you learn the openings? Or do you stick with a certain set of openings and learn to vary them as needed? 


My feeling is that you first identify the type of positions that you understand best.  Then search for the common features in those types of positions.  This is why I emphasized "open" versus "closed" positions in my earlier post.

 

Once you have a sense of the type of position you like to encounter, you can then study carefully several games that have similar positions.  Most likely, you will find that certain openings lead to those types of positions more frequently than other openings.  At this point, start playing those openings yourself!

 

From your games, you will begin to learn to vary these openings as needed.  After you have developed some intuition, you can then profit immensely from an openings handbook because your basic intuition will make it easier to memorize the specialized variations.  Without the basic intuition, the variations appear random.

 

A good collection of games that covers a wide panorama of openings with moderate detail and helpful intuitive comments is "500 Master Games of Chess" by Tartokower and DuMont.  For open games, I would suggest "200 Open Games" by Bronstein.  For general awareness of basic strategical ideas illustrated via game fragments, try reading "Simple Chess" by Michael Stean.

 

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