Does anyone know if black can avoid transposing to an inferior version of the main line when white delays Nf3 in the Scandinavian? For example 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Bc4 c6 6. Bd2 Bf5 7. Qe2 and now it seems like black is forced to play 7... Qb6 or 7... Qc7 already.

 

Here's an example game:

[Event "ROC Aventus"]
[Site "Apeldoorn"]
[Date "2007.09.08"]
[Round "4"]
[White "N.N."]
[Black "Me"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B01"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Bd2 c6 6. Bc4 Bf5 7. Qe2 Qc7 8.
Nf3 e6 9. Ne5 Nbd7 10. O-O-O Nxe5 11. dxe5 Nd5 12. g4 Bg6 13. f4 O-O-O 14. Rhf1
Nxc3 15. Bxc3 Rxd1+ 16. Qxd1 b5 17. Bb3 Be4 18. Qe2 Bd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. f5
Be7 21. Kb1 Re8 22. Qd3 Bc5 23. a3 Kb7 24. Re1 Qd7 25. Re2 Bb6 26. Qf3 Bc7 27.
Bd4 Bb6 28. Bxb6 axb6 29. Qe3 Qe7 30. e6 fxe6 31. fxe6 Rf8 32. Re1 h6 33. Qe5
Rf2 34. h4 Rf3 35. g5 hxg5 36. hxg5 g6 37. Qh2 Rf5 38. Qh6 Qe8 39. Qg7+ Kb8 40.
Rh1 Rf8 41. Rh7 1-0

 

In this game I got out pretty well, but like my book says, if white plays 13. Rdf1! white has a good advantage. 

 

So the question: Can black do something with the delayed knight development? Is 6... Bg4 7.f3 Bf5 better? Or maybe should black play Nc6 somewhere?

 

Thanks in advance for any (useful) comments. 

Oh wait this site has a game viewer

Here is a quick idea, on the fly, that might be explored:

5. Bd2 seems passive even though it sets up a discovered attack on the Black Queen.  Thus, Black might be able to open things up with 5. ... e5.

I did not think about this much at all because I am about to log off.  I wouldn't be shocked if the move is dubious and Black can get clobbered right away.  On the other hand, one point of an early Nf3 is to ensure that ... e5 is not viable.  So, it might work. 

At first sight it looks ok, but white can exploit it with 6. Nd5 Qd8 7. Nxf6+ Qxf6 8. Nf3 exd4 9. O-O when white is fully developed, and black has only developed his queen. Or white can simply play 6. Qe2 when black loses a pawn.

6. Nd5 is answered by Queen takes Knight!   Also, Black's c pawn hasn't yet moved.  So, 6 ... Qd8 is not possible.  Please note that I am referring to the sequence of moves in the complete game quoted above.  So, the move pair "Bc4 c6" has not occurred.  My answer to 5. Bc4 would also be 5. ... e5.  Without the White bishop on d2, White's queen knight remains pinned.

Why does Black lose a pawn after 6. Qe2?  His king bishop and queen knight (and maybe his king knight) can support the pawn.

An alternative to 7. ... Qc7 or Qb6, is e6.

knetfan wrote:

6. Nd5 is answered by Queen takes Knight!   Also, Black's c pawn hasn't yet moved.  So, 6 ... Qd8 is not possible.  Please note that I am referring to the sequence of moves in the complete game quoted above.  So, the move pair "Bc4 c6" has not occurred.  My answer to 5. Bc4 would also be 5. ... e5.  Without the White bishop on d2, White's queen knight remains pinned.

Why does Black lose a pawn after 6. Qe2?  His king bishop and queen knight (and maybe his king knight) can support the pawn.

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Oops, I thought you meant after Bc4 c6 Bd2 My bad.

I think the problem with that is that with 6. Bb5+ c5 7. dxe5 white wins a pawn.

RichardHayden wrote: An alternative to 7. ... Qc7 or Qb6, is e6.

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That looks very suidical in view of 8. d5. After 8... cxd5 9. Nxd5 Qd8 10. Nxf6+ Qxf6 11. O-O-O white may not have a forced win yet, but the advantage is obvious.

Phobetor wrote: knetfan wrote:

6. Nd5 is answered by Queen takes Knight!   Also, Black's c pawn hasn't yet moved.  So, 6 ... Qd8 is not possible.  Please note that I am referring to the sequence of moves in the complete game quoted above.  So, the move pair "Bc4 c6" has not occurred.  My answer to 5. Bc4 would also be 5. ... e5.  Without the White bishop on d2, White's queen knight remains pinned.

Why does Black lose a pawn after 6. Qe2?  His king bishop and queen knight (and maybe his king knight) can support the pawn.

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Oops, I thought you meant after Bc4 c6 Bd2 My bad.

I think the problem with that is that with 6. Bb5+ c5 7. dxe5 white wins a pawn.

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Black can avoid losing a pawn by responding to 6. Bb5+ with 6. ... Bd7.  However, in at least one variation, either his pawn structure is wrecked or he finds his king in what might be too dangerous a position in the center:

6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. dxe5 Bxb5 8. Nxb5 Qxb5 9. exf6 Qxb2 10. Qe2+ or

6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. dxe5 Bxb5 8. Nxb5 Qxb5 9. exf6 gxf6

So, 5. ... e5 might indeed be too provocative. 

Phobetor wrote: RichardHayden wrote: An alternative to 7. ... Qc7 or Qb6, is e6.

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That looks very suidical in view of 8. d5. After 8... cxd5 9. Nxd5 Qd8 10. Nxf6+ Qxf6 11. O-O-O white may not have a forced win yet, but the advantage is obvious.

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I don't see White's advantage as being clear.  I would play 11. ... Nc6. Your move.