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Smith-Morra, Siberian Trap Question


  • 8 months ago · Quote · #1

    iamdave220


    I've just started studying this trap and I don't understand why white would move 7. Qe2. It allows the Siberian Trap to be set and I don't see what white gains from it. The e4 pawn doesn't seem to need an extra defender.

    Can anyone explain? Thanks!

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #2

    dashkee94

    I think it's mostly to make playing d5 more difficult and it clears d1 for a rook later.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #3

    iamdave220

    Okay. Thanks! I've also just realized that after 7... Qc7 8. Nb5 the e4 pawn becomes loose if Qe2 were not previously played.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #4

    myk99

    Qe2 is a very thematic move in the SMG, the main idea with it is to clear d1 for the rook and it will assist with an e5 push. Ive looked for many ways to bust the SMG. The Siberian Trap is really nice looking, but if someone plays the SMG they most likely know about it and how to get around it.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #5

    kikvors

    It also prepares Nd5 traps.

    But mostly I think Morra players just play it because that's what they always play...

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #7

    myk99

    @JMB2010 -  Ive had such a hard time finding the best line against it. What do you find unsound about it and what do you play against it?

    The line that I use now is a little bit different and goes like this -

     

    Both seem to have their ups and down but the SMG always seems to give me fits if I accept it. thoughts?


  • 8 months ago · Quote · #8

    Pilotknight

    7. 0-0, (NOT Qe2) Qc7  8. Nb5, Qb8  9. e5! if Nxe5  10. Nxe5 Qxe5  11 Re1 Qc5 12. Bf1! +/- . " After the coiling 12. Bf1! the trap is laid clear, and White's minor pieces will banish the queen to a land where she wishes not to go.  The threat of Be3 & Rc1 forces Black's hand." IM Marc Esserman  "Mayhem in the Morra"

    Here in lyes your "deeper point" JMB2010.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #11

    InfiniteFlash

    You are better off declining the Morra in all honesty with 3..Nf6. 

    No shame in declining it.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #12

    1random

    Pilotknight wrote:

    7. 0-0, (NOT Qe2) Qc7  8. Nb5, Qb8  9. e5! if Nxe5  10. Nxe5 Qxe5  11 Re1 Qc5 12. Bf1! +/- . " After the coiling 12. Bf1! the trap is laid clear, and White's minor pieces will banish the queen to a land where she wishes not to go.  The threat of Be3 & Rc1 forces Black's hand." IM Marc Esserman  "Mayhem in the Morra"

    Here in lyes your "deeper point" JMB2010.

    If 7.0-0, black has Nxe4!. That is the point of Qe2, to stop Nxe4.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #13

    AdorableMogwai

    InfiniteFlash wrote:

    You are better off declining the Morra in all honesty with 3..Nf6. 

    No shame in declining it.

    There's not really "shame" in declining it, but it does seem a little timid, especially given all the systems that have been developed for black to defend against it. I find the Smith-Morra accepted games exciting and challenging for both sides and so I'll always accept the gambit.

    I was actually thinking of starting a group for people who like to play Smith-Morra games, and perhaps having weekly tournaments for each defensive system. So for example one week there could be a Taylor Defense tournament, the next a Chicago Defense, etc, and people would play as both black and white. Additionally the group could serve as a gathering place of people who want to play Smith-Morra games so they can easily find other people to play them. Would anyone be interested in this?

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #14

    1random

    AdorableMogwai wrote:
    InfiniteFlash wrote:

    You are better off declining the Morra in all honesty with 3..Nf6. 

    No shame in declining it.

    There's not really "shame" in declining it, but it does seem a little timid, especially given all the systems that have been developed for black to defend against it. I find the Smith-Morra accepted games exciting and challenging for both sides and so I'll always accept the gambit.

    I was actually thinking of starting a group for people who like to play Smith-Morra games, and perhaps having weekly tournaments for each defensive system. So for example one week there could be a Taylor Defense tournament, the next a Chicago Defense, etc, and people would play as both black and white. Additionally the group could serve as a gathering place of people who want to play Smith-Morra games so they can easily find other people to play them. Would anyone be interested in this?

    The idea is great, but that might be too many ongoing games.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #15

    AdorableMogwai

    1random wrote:

    The idea is great, but that might be too many ongoing games.

    I just tried to make the group here but it won't let me because I'm not a paid member. Maybe you can make it 1random? I'd join for sure, and I think a lot of other people would too. It seems like whenever there's a thread in these forums about the Smith-Morra it gets a lot of views, so I know people are interested in this opening. Even if we can't do all those tournaments, it can be a gathering to find other people to play the games with.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #16

    Pilotknight

    Sorry I missed a move in my previous comment.  Here's the entire move order up to 12. Bf1+/-

    1. e4 c5  2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bc4 Qc7 (commencing the Trap) 7. 0-0 (NOT Qe2) Nf6 8. Nb5 (attacking the Q) Qb8 9. e5! Nxe5 10. Nxe5 Qxe5 11. Re1 Qc5 12. Bf1! +/-  NO possibility for Nxe4 as Nf6 is played after 0-0.

     

    Pilotknight

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #17

    LoveYouSoMuch

    1random wrote:

    If 7.0-0, black has Nxe4!. That is the point of Qe2, to stop Nxe4.

    this is the truth

    Pilotknight wrote:

    Sorry I missed a move in my previous comment.  Here's the entire move order up to 12. Bf1+/-

    1. e4 c5  2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bc4 Qc7 (commencing the Trap) 7. 0-0 (NOT Qe2) Nf6 8. Nb5 (attacking the Q) Qb8 9. e5! Nxe5 10. Nxe5 Qxe5 11. Re1 Qc5 12. Bf1! +/-  NO possibility for Nxe4 as Nf6 is played after 0-0.

     

    Pilotknight

    notice how black played Qc7 instead of Nf6?

    Esserman calls 6.. Nf6 the "improved siberian" and then recommends 7 Qe2, as ..Nxe4 ..d5 is a legit threat. if you want to know more, then get the book (or actually read it) i guess.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #18

    Pilotknight

    Hey "LOVEYOUSOMUCH", White can still play 7. 0-0 after 6....Nf6 cause White has his Night on c3--Black can't take on e4.  For Black to play for the TRAP the must now play 7...Qc7 which simply transposes after 8. Nb5.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #19

    LoveYouSoMuch

    Pilotknight wrote:

    Hey "LOVEYOUSOMUCH", White can still play 7. 0-0 after 6....Nf6 cause White has his Night on c3--Black can't take on e4.  For Black to play for the TRAP the must now play 7...Qc7 which simply transposes after 8. Nb5.

    you must be trolling, right - but i'll reply for the sake of possible naive readers. it is clear (or, at least, should still be easily inferred by a player of your strength, so i'm sure that you know) that black can take on e4 - ..Nxe4 followed by ..d5, a super typical fork trick.

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #20

    Pilotknight

    The "subject" of this dicussion is the Siberian Trap--8.Nxe4 d5 is a different line, also White has compensation for the pawn after 9. Qe2.  Again the subject is Black's attempt to PLAY the Siberian Trap--NOT some other line.


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