Upgrade to Chess.com Premium!

taming the sicilian open sicilian with g3


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #1

    tigergutt

    anyone have any experience with this? its a book called taming the sicilian by nigel davies which goes 1.e4 2.Nf3 3.d4 4.Nxd4 and 5.Nc3 and 6.g3 against almost all sicilians. its tempting for me to try out. i heard some bad comments on it on chesspublishing.com but the more i look at the book the more well thought out it looks. maybe its even possible to build it into a open sicilian repertoire later on by exchanging g3lines here and there with mainlines?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #2

    jonathanroarke

    I have the book, and even though I don't play the lines, I can vouch for the quality of the book itself.

    I think most of the negatives you'll hear about it have to do with how theoretically testing the lines in it really are against top level, booked up competition.

    But as a practical choice, it will do more than fine.  It's a typical Davies book.  A little too optimistic, a little light on cutting edge analysis, but good with giving plans and guidance.

    I wouldn't get the book and then start playing the lines.  I'd give them a go first, then decide.  I bought the book, but found the lines incredibly awkward OTB and abandoned them for more standard Be2 fare.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #4

    transpo

    tigergutt wrote:

    anyone have any experience with this? its a book called taming the sicilian by nigel davies which goes 1.e4 2.Nf3 3.d4 4.Nxd4 and 5.Nc3 and 6.g3 against almost all sicilians. its tempting for me to try out. i heard some bad comments on it on chesspublishing.com but the more i look at the book the more well thought out it looks. maybe its even possible to build it into a open sicilian repertoire later on by exchanging g3lines here and there with mainlines?

    What every anti-Sicilian system fails to take into account is the right perspective.  In the Sicilian opening no matter which variation what you have is a clash between 2 chess opening theories.  White applies the Classical Chess Opening Theory and Black applies the Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory.

    As you might have guessed there are 2 opening theores in chess:

    1. Classical Chess Opening Theory:  Control the center by occupying the center [central squares (d4,e4,e4,e5)] with your pawns  and pieces.

    2. Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory:  Control the center with power of your pawns and pieces.  With this method you do not create targets in the center for your opponent to attack.

    Notice that after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.g3 e6

    White has a N occupying the central square d4, and a pawn at e4 occupying the central e4.  Both the pawn and the N are targets for Black to attack.  By contrast Black has no pawns or pieces occupying central squares and yet he is still fighting for control of the central squares d5,e5 with his pawns at d6 and e6 and his N at f6 and yet none of his pawns or pieces are occupying central squares.

    Once you become aware of this difference in the opening theory being applied to control the center, it becomes very easy to understand and play the right moves even without knowing all of the Sicilian opening variations (Open, Najdorf, Dragon, etc.)

    With 6.g3 White is attempting to begin applying Hypermodern theory to control of the center by placing his B at g2, along with a plan of attack.  The problem White faces is that now he must play a combination of Classical and Hypermodern.  Combined with the fact that he has already mad his N at d4 and his pawn at e4 targets for Black to attack.

    If you would like to know more, please let me know.  

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #5

    transpo

    paulgottlieb wrote:

    The graveyards  are littered with the bones of players who thought that they could play the right moves in the Dragon or Najdorf because they understood  "general principles"

    A nice metaphor, but it has nothing to do with the facts regarding the in depth understanding that the right perspective gives you.  The facts are that White is applying Classical Chess Opening Theory to contolling the center in the Sicilian Opening.  And, Black is applying Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory to controlling the center.  That perspective alone causes your mind to see very naturally the next logical move.

    If you would like to have a theoretical discussion over the board with me, I would be happy to meet you for a face to face confrontation as long as it is in the state of Florida where I happen to be vacationing for the next 2 months. 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #7

    FanofSomeone

    pfren wrote:

    Here is a case where the fiachetto worked well (againt the so-called Grivas Sicilian):

     

    17.Qd6! is a very strong novelty (prepared some 15 months ago) which gives white a clear advantage. Black may have to sacrifice a pawn by 16...Be6(!) 17.fe5 Rad8, although the onus is on him to prove sufficient compensation (I have analysed it in depth, but plz allow me keeping something for myself!).

    I see,16....Be6 is a nice move if black has his preparation.Black has to make Qd6 out of the equation by Rd8.White can play Qe2 or Qf3 now.Qe2 will provoke the queen exchange.It's not easy to play a white but I would like to be on the White's side.Cool

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #8

    tigergutt

    thanks you guys have been helpful. meetings kids 10-13 years old throwing out 20 moves of mainline sicilian theory have made me think twice about playing the english attack. Then again in the english attack you can use similar plans in many situations and i have beaten stronger players than me relatively easy from time to time by using ideas learned from similar lines because i understand plans in the structure ...i will see:) i have to look closer at the g3 systems for them to make real sence to me

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #9

    tigergutt

    im really considering taming the sicilian i have played through alot of the lines and it seems i like them. my plan is to pick one set of openings and dont touch any other openings until i reach 2000 rating OTB. do you guys think taming the sicilian is good enough for that? maybe when i reach 2000 i can even slowly start exchanging g3 lines here and there with mainlines...sounds almost to good to be true

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #11

    blake78613

    I have heard g3 Sicilians described this way (I think maybe by Hort): I am not going to try to beat you, but just you try to beat me.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #12

    tigergutt

    bought the book. cant wait to start digging!

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #13

    tigergutt

    pfren wrote:

    17.Qd6! is a very strong novelty (prepared some 15 months ago) which gives white a clear advantage. Black may have to sacrifice a pawn by 16...Be6(!) 17.fe5 Rad8, although the onus is on him to prove sufficient compensation (I have analysed it in depth, but plz allow me keeping something for myself!).

    this is very useful information! davies mention this line in a sideline and say its good but stops analysing at 11.bxc3 mentioning that 11...Nxc3(which i probably would have played as black) is bad because of Qg4!

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #15

    tigergutt

    oh thats fine with me:) most of my opponents are around 1700 and i dont think there is a snowflakes chance in hell they will follow theory that far

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #16

    RutherfordBHayes

    echecs06 wrote:

    I'll go with pfren on that one. I play the Sicilian a lot and 3.g3 has not been no  more than a temporary annoyance. If you play somebody who really knows the intricacies of the Sicilian you'll be left up the creek without a paddle with you early g3, my experience only. Good luck anyway with it!

    I don't think the Closed is the line under discussion.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #17

    tigergutt

    im talking about g3 in the open sicilian usually around move 6. i never gave a name because im not sure the opening has a name at all. this is an example. the idea is to play g3 against almost everything. but im on pfrens side here. playing unusual lines may leads your opponent into unfamiliar territory but since its infamiliar you have to do all the work yourself to make it work and its alot of work instead of buying the newest book on the mainlines

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #18

    transpo

    tigergutt wrote:

    im talking about g3 in the open sicilian usually around move 6. i never gave a name because im not sure the opening has a name at all. this is an example. the idea is to play g3 against almost everything. but im on pfrens side here. playing unusual lines may leads your opponent into unfamiliar territory but since its infamiliar you have to do all the work yourself to make it work and its alot of work instead of buying the newest book on the mainlines

     

    If you have the right perspective the good candidate moves fall out of matrix of variations like ripe fruit. 

    Take for example the position in the diagram you posted and I quoted. 

    1. After the move 6.g3 as Black I would instantly think of the St. George Attack if White castles on the Kingside (0-0).

    2. If White plays Bg2 he has lost the possibility of playing the thematic Bc4.  However, he does get the limited diagonal h1-f3 and he is exerting additional pressure against the thematic d5 square from behind the White pawn at e4.  This makes Black's eventual ...d5 break more problematic if Black even finds it necessary to play ...d5.  Additionally with the B at g2 White forfeits all tactical shots at e6 in combination with the N at d4 in case Black plays ...Nbd7 at the wrong time.  I have, however, reviewed a book by IM Tappani Samualvo on this 6.g3 idea, where White plays Bh3 but only after h4 and the tactical shots at e6 come to life again from the diagonal h3-e6 instead of b3-e6.  I have also read an article about IMSamualvo's book by GMJoe Gallagher that is critical of Samualvo's analysis.

    If you would like to know more, and more about how pawn structure, the Hypermodern and Siege Warfare (restrain, blockade, and execute the enemy) combine to produce a perspective on any position that causes the candidate moves to fall out of the matrix of variations like ripe fruit, please let me know.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #19

    blake78613

    I really don't think of Bc4 as a thematic move in the Sicilian.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #20

    transpo

    blake78613 wrote:

    I really don't think of Bc4 as a thematic move in the Sicilian.

    During Bobby Fischer's time he popularized 6.Bc4 to a point where it was thought of in some chess circles as thematic.  Today of course it is recognized that this is not the case


Back to Top

Post your reply: