Here is a critical novelty in the 8.Qf3 Be7 line of the Two Knights' Defense that gives White excellent chances for a plus. White keeps his extra pawn and avoids any pawn weaknesses. It took me several tries to realize I can't push my Kingside pawns to attack the Black King, but my endgame skills are terrible so Fritz 10 drew here, but I think I may have missed a win.

The critical improvement Qd3! forces Black to either accept the exchange of Queens or allow White to step off the d-file with the maneuver c3/Qc2 which also stops

 an early Nb4.

Interesting try, Richard, but I'm not fully convinced. It seems to me that after 10...Qxd3 11.Bxd3 Nd5 12.Nf3 (for example) Nb4 I wouldn't underestimate Black's compensation. Clearly, it will take a better player than me to evaluate this position accurately, but if you like piece play, and you like the initiative, I think you would be satisfied with Black's game

Isn't 4.Ng5 dead yet?

Paul---I think that White trades one advantage for another 12...Nd5 13.Nf3 Nb4 14.Nxe5 Bd6 15.a3 Nxd3ch 16.Nxd3 Re1ch 17.Kd1 Be6 18.Re1. Black has to demonstrate two pawns worth of compensation e.g. 18...Bxh2 19.Nc3 Red8 20.Rxe6 fxe6 21.Nc5 Nc4 22.Nce4 Rd5 23.g3 Bg1 24.d3 Rxc5 25.Nxc5 Bxf2 26.Ne4 Ne3ch 27.Bxe3 Bxe3 +/-that Knight on e4 is a killer.

Once White eliminates the Queen Bishop the Khights are killers.

Pardon my noobishness, but why not 9.Bxc6?

9.Bxc6 Nxc6 (kind of forced, because otherwise Black has to either move his king out of check losing the right to castle, or interpose his bishop, but then white can exchange his bishop for the a8 rook)

10.Qxc6 Bd7 (Black defends the check and allow the queen to defend the rook while threatening white's queen)

11.Qf3 back to the safety position, having exchanged a bishop for a knight and a pawn.

White is to pawns up. The only setbacks I can see (but important ones) would  be that white lost the bishop pair and is late in develoment. Is that enough to justify not playing  9.Bxc6?

20.g3 looks good to me.

Long variation, wrong variation.

4. Ng5 is far from dead.

And taking Bxc6+ Nxc6...etc only looks good. White scores terribly in these lines and it is seldom seen in high level games.

Any specific variations where Black can improve?

Sloughter, you have rehashed and beaten this horse over and over again.  We went through these lines before in your previous threads on this variation.  I haven't seen anything new.

Well Richard, in the line after 11...Nd5 12.Nf3 Nb4 13.Nxe5 Bd6 14.a3 Nxd3+ 15.Nxd3, I prefer 15...Bf5. One try for White is 16.Nc3 Nb3 17.Rb1 I really like Black's initiative.

Clearly, I think that you are over-valuing White's pawns and under-valuing Black's piece activity and intiative, while you probably think that I'm doing exactly the reverse! It's partly a matter of temperment and preference, but in any case, I think the ultimate answer is beyond the two of us.  Sadly, I don't think we wil ever see any Grandmaster tests of all this, since these lines never seem to appear in grandmaster practice. 

Oh god... he's back again with his "refutation" of the two knights...

It is rare that Fritz engines run into the horizon

 effect, but here Fritz had the choice of retreating a Knight leading to a poor position or play into a losing tactical shot.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and go check your other threads.

I'm sticking with 11...Nd5 12.Nf3 Nb4 13.Nxe5 Bd6 14.a3 Nxd3+ 15.Nxd3, Bf5 and I think Black is at least equal. And if 14.Nf3 instead, 14...Nxd3+ 15.Nxd3 Re8+ 16.Kd1 c5 also looks just fine foe Black. I'm betting on the two bishops on an open board and a big lead in develoment and piece activity

Unlike the other 9.Be2 variations, here Black has real losing chances. White has the better side of equality in this game where Fritz 10 had 240 minutes to make 23 moves.

But 11...Nh5 simply isn't Black's best try. If you really want to test an opening idea, you have to test it against Black's best try

Hi Paul,

You are right that Black should play 12.Bxd3 Nd5 when White has to play 13.Bxh7ch Kh8 14.h4 picking up three pawns for the piece, but I am getting blind in my old age. Why not just 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Be2 O-O 10.h4!! Black has nothing better than 10...h6 when White just plays 11.Ne4 Nxe4 is harmless or 10.h4 Bg4 is met with Qd3 (Now this works because the g5 Knight isn't hanging so that 11.Qd3 Qxd3 12.Bxd3 Nd5 13.Be2+/=).

Finally what we all missed before is that if Black tries 10...Nd5? 11.g4!! with initiative.

It appears that Be7 offers no better prospects for equality than the other lines.

Paul's line is adequete against 10.Qd3.  I would also like to mention 10...Qc7 as a way to obtain a huge initiative for black.  Qd3 is a mighty ugly move.

Now Sloughter, you shouldn't stick your chin out in a boxing match.

8.Qf3 Be7 9.Be2 0-0 10.h4 Nd5 11.g4 f5! and white is going to be smashed.