What is the birds opening.

1.f4

 

It is called Bird's Opening, and is named after the English master that played it during the second half of the 19th century: Henry E. Bird. 

 

The bird's opening, 1.f4, is a slightly inaccurate but playable opening for white. Black has several accurate responses, with a few sharp and dubious possibilities.

 

1.f4

1. ...e5?!

2. e4?! exf4 (King's Gambit accepted)

2. fxe5 (From's Gambit accepted)

 

1. ...d5

2. Nf3 c5 3.e3 Nf6 4.d4 (Stonewall)

2. Nc3  Bf4 3.Nf3 Nc6

2. e3 e6 3. Be2 (This transposes into a line i used to play as white when I first started, I'm now laughing at how bad I was)

1. ...c5?!

<Cheesehat> In what way is it inaccurate? Pray tell.

the bird's opening is no where near the best opening it sucks

It is my own opinion to be honest. It does not contest the centre as well as you probably would with 1. e4 or 1.d4. It also does not free up any pieces, except for the King, which should be kept safe.

 

I say innacurate meaning inaccurate, not downright bad. 1. h3 is downright bad. 1.f4 SOMEWHAT increases the kingside attacking chances, with 2. Nf3 3. Rg1 (I have seen this before), but that leaves many weaknesses, the main one being white's control of the centre.

 

In addition, the move f4 is best made after black has responded, for example, 1.e5 c5  2. Nc3 Nc6  3. f4, where f4 is justified. Just a simple f4 can allow black to transpose into lines where f4 is unnecessary, and another move may have been better.

 

There is nothing objectively wrong with 1.f4, except that your kingside is slightly weakened. Furthermore, black can try to play around the move f4, i.e. playing an opening where f4 is not BAD and game losing, but a better move could have been played.

 

With 1.e4 and 1.d4, it is harder for black to play an opening where central break do not make sense. In addition, it is easier to solidify d4 and e4 pawns, where the f4 pawn is defended only by the c1 bishop after the d2 pawn has moved. If 2.e3, you are transposing into a Stonewall variation, which i believe is even worse than a normal Bird's Opening.

I play the From's Gambit.  It gives Black a huge attack and a lead in development for a small cost of a pawn.

Thanks for the advice.

I like the Bird's Opening. The advantages it gives are more slight than 1.e4, but it has given me a wealth of interesting positions that are fun to play.

Reb wrote: KillaBeez wrote: I play the From's Gambit.  It gives Black a huge attack and a lead in development for a small cost of a pawn.

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Do you play 1....e5 against 1 e4 ? do you have a line you like against the kings gambit? If not then  1....e5 against  1f4 is gonna suck when white plays  2 e4  

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I play the French against 1.e4, but I know King's Gambit theory pretty well.  I typically play the Fischer Defense against it.  It leads to double edged and unclear positions.

cheesehat wrote:

It is my own opinion to be honest. It does not contest the centre as well as you probably would with 1. e4 or 1.d4. It also does not free up any pieces, except for the King, which should be kept safe.

 

I say innacurate meaning inaccurate, not downright bad. 1. h3 is downright bad. 1.f4 SOMEWHAT increases the kingside attacking chances, with 2. Nf3 3. Rg1 (I have seen this before), but that leaves many weaknesses, the main one being white's control of the centre.

 

In addition, the move f4 is best made after black has responded, for example, 1.e5 c5  2. Nc3 Nc6  3. f4, where f4 is justified. Just a simple f4 can allow black to transpose into lines where f4 is unnecessary, and another move may have been better.

 

There is nothing objectively wrong with 1.f4, except that your kingside is slightly weakened. Furthermore, black can try to play around the move f4, i.e. playing an opening where f4 is not BAD and game losing, but a better move could have been played.

 

With 1.e4 and 1.d4, it is harder for black to play an opening where central break do not make sense. In addition, it is easier to solidify d4 and e4 pawns, where the f4 pawn is defended only by the c1 bishop after the d2 pawn has moved. If 2.e3, you are transposing into a Stonewall variation, which i believe is even worse than a normal Bird's Opening.

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"Inaccurate" is needlessly derogative of you, and your reasoning of why the bird's opening is "inaccurate" is tremendously dogmatic. To say an opening is "inaccurate" because it doesn't do "something" or weakens "something" but then neglect to appreciate what you get in return is rather silly of you. In your case, many black openings (1.e4 c5 for example) would be "inaccurate", but they're not; we don't always play 1...e5 and 1...d5 against 1.e4 and 1.d4 but its not considered "inaccurate"; the same could be said of white openings.

Now, I don't wish to continue this argument of your "opinion"; in fact, the first sentence of your previous post would have made more sense alone then with the stuff that followed it. If it is only your opinion then please don't reply with a long "I'm right, your wrong" message as it would merely be a mental waste for us both. Try and be less dogmatic is all I'm saying. 

1. ...c5 provides counterattacking possibilities for black.

 

1. f4 provides attacking possibilities for white, but also weakens his king.

 

I said it provides some strong attacking chances but it weakens the king a little, and there may be lines with other moves that do the same but do not weaken the king.

 

I'm not being dogmatic, that's just how I explain stuff.

 

ALL OPINION

cheesehat wrote:

1. ...c5 provides counterattacking possibilities for black.

  What? So 1...c5 is good because it does "something" but the Bird's opening is inaccurate because it weakens "something"?  Your assesments doesn't look fairly at the advantages and disadvantages of an opening. Ima tell ya: one of the principles of the dogmatic classical school of Steintz and Tarrasch was to never create weaknesses in your position. Your no different in your assesment, so I don't see how your not dogmatic.

I said it provides some strong attacking chances but it weakens the king a little, and there may be lines with other moves that do the same but do not weaken the king.

You said  "1.f4 SOMEWHAT increases the kingside attacking chances, with 2. Nf3 3. Rg1 (I have seen this before), but that leaves many weaknesses, the main one being white's control of the centre."  which more insinuates the negative aspects of the opening. Furthermore, 3. Rg1 is silly and its no wonder why you have such a negative impression of the opening. The opening is a reverse dutch, and your undervaluing it by saying its inaccurate.

I'm not being dogmatic, that's just how I explain stuff.

 I don't care if thats how you "explain stuff"; the point is that your demeaning the value of the birds opening merely on the basis of its weakening. That's dogmatic as your not taking into account that certain factors will compensate for the weakness and you can't deny that. 

ALL OPINION

I find it funny how defensive you are of your opinion. ---Nimzo33

Birds opening is completely accurate, it's  very  strong for white .  All of the lines leave white in a good position with winning chances. One of Black's strongest options is 1...c5, but if black doesn't know how play the Sicilian they may have some problems. Bird's opening is an excellent opening.

1. ...c5 allows black queen development, and queenside counterattacking chances. 1. f4 allows white attacking chances on the queenside, but also weakens the king.

 

Also, after 1. ...c5 you may play b5 at any time. However, you must be alert when playing g4 after 1. f4 as there may be a sudden rude Qh4+ that would cripple your position.

 

I'm not being defensive. Why would I argue something while being defensive, knowing there are many players "Better" than I am right here and can refute that easily?

 

Currently your refutation is I'm being dogmatic, which I don't think counts :)

Here is the main line after 1.f4 c5. Herny Bird's original idea with 1.f4 was to play for control  of the e5 square .  It's quite clear in this line that white is aiming for control of the e5 square. Black is force to play a little passive to hold onto control of e5. But the plan isn't for white to lanch an all out kingside attack right away, and black isn't planing an all out queenside attack with c5, c5 gives black some control in the center without weakening  e5.

cheesehat wrote:

1. ...c5 allows black queen development, and queenside counterattacking chances. 1. f4 allows white attacking chances on the queenside, but also weakens the king.

Your treating the king weakness as if it loses the game for white. An inaccuracy would normally lead to an  less-desirable position, 1. f4 surely doesn't.

 

Also, after 1. ...c5 you may play b5 at any time. However, you must be alert when playing g4 after 1. f4 as there may be a sudden rude Qh4+ that would cripple your position.

What? Why bring this up? Its meaningless. The queen check isn't a problem if Nf3 is played. Besides, any decent player would know to prepare before beginning that kind of flank attack. No sensible player would allow the king weakness to be fatal. Its a reverse "Dutch"-A dutch, get it? World Champions have played the dutch, and they wouldn't if it was "inaccurate".

 

I'm not being defensive. Why would I argue something while being defensive, knowing there are many players "Better" than I am right here and can refute that easily?

You defending your opinion to this degree this far is definitely being defensive of it. I'm only arguing this so others do not get a bad impression of the bird's opening because of your frivolous reasons.

  

Currently your refutation is I'm being dogmatic, which I don't think counts :)

  Did you forget what were arguing about? The reason why I'm calling you dogmatic is because your called an opening "inaccurate" on the basis that it weakens something. Thats dogma and is all I need to prove my point.

I'm not trying to give the Bird's opening jack. I said inaccurate means...inaccurate...as in the literal meaning. look back to my first post.

 

BECAUSE it is weakening the king a little and is not WHOLLY accurate it is TECHNICALLY inaccurate. Also, there is no need to play Nc6 before playing b5. I never said an all out attack would be launched immediately.

 

1. d4 f5 is the dutch.  1. f4 c5 is not the reverse dutch.

 

But your only refutation so far is that I am being dogmatic. Regardless of what I am being dogmatic about (which I don't think I am), being dogmatic is not related to how good a chess move is.