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The Black Lion defenses


  • 21 months ago · Quote · #21

    bresando

    Correct me if i'm wrong (I looked at it a very long time ago), but as far as i know the authors are two national mastrers.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #22

    bresando

    Yes, i'm indeed wrong. 

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #23

    BiffTheUnderstudy

    vengence69 wrote:
    BiffTheUnderstudy wrote:

    Apparently the book is fairly terrible. Written by mediocre players, and with a zillion mistakes. A critic even found a diagram that was supposed to be "in black favour" that was actually something like 7 on Houdini.

    From what I understood, it's a pet line for club players. Nothing wrong with that. Then the whole fuss is marketing, and pretty well handled since they manage to sell much more books than many GM writing insightful stuff about sound openings.


    That is definitely good to know. I have seen many books that are like that, such as some of Andrew Soltis' works on openings such as the Englih with 2. g3 against nearly every imaginable Black reply.

    Well when I read stuff like that:

    "The Lion is an extraordinary chess opening. Playing with black you have an incredible strong weapon against all the white opening moves you can imagine. The Lion is an excellent response to 1.e4 or 1.d4, but the Lion is also the best answer for 1.c4 and 1.Nf3. Actually, it's more than just an opening. The Lion is also played in middlegame and endgame. With the Lion you get a whole new chess strategy and -philosophy."

    (in this promotional website http://www.vanrekom.nl/thelion/indexgb.htm)

    I usually become suspicious. Look at the site, it shows the Black Lion without even bothering to show white moves. There is no such thing as a universal opening playable against black and white and against d4 and e4. As if in chess what your opponent does didn't matter one little bit.

    Marketing newbie trap in my opinion. It's a pet system, which is fine, but this is not serious theory and the way they advertise it is plain ridiculous.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #24

    PatzerLars

    "With the Lion you get a whole new chess strategy and -philosophy." LaughingLaughing

    Seriously ??

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #25

    BiffTheUnderstudy

    PatzerLars wrote:

    "With the Lion you get a whole new chess strategy and -philosophy."

    Seriously ??

    Yeah the guys pretend to think they are the new Steinitz because they found a universal half-sound pet system.

    Then you have GM writing extremely serious books and being completely honest about what is good or not, about this or that line of the Grunfeld or the semi slav, and really looking deeply into stuff; and nobody buy them.  

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #26

    Bill_C

    BiffTheUnderstudy wrote:
    vengence69 wrote:
    BiffTheUnderstudy wrote:

    Apparently the book is fairly terrible. Written by mediocre players, and with a zillion mistakes. A critic even found a diagram that was supposed to be "in black favour" that was actually something like 7 on Houdini.

    From what I understood, it's a pet line for club players. Nothing wrong with that. Then the whole fuss is marketing, and pretty well handled since they manage to sell much more books than many GM writing insightful stuff about sound openings.


    That is definitely good to know. I have seen many books that are like that, such as some of Andrew Soltis' works on openings such as the Englih with 2. g3 against nearly every imaginable Black reply.

    Well when I read stuff like that:

    "The Lion is an extraordinary chess opening. Playing with black you have an incredible strong weapon against all the white opening moves you can imagine. The Lion is an excellent response to 1.e4 or 1.d4, but the Lion is also the best answer for 1.c4 and 1.Nf3. Actually, it's more than just an opening. The Lion is also played in middlegame and endgame. With the Lion you get a whole new chess strategy and -philosophy."

    (in this promotional website http://www.vanrekom.nl/thelion/indexgb.htm)

    I usually become suspicious. Look at the site, it shows the Black Lion without even bothering to show white moves. There is no such thing as a universal opening playable against black and white and against d4 and e4. As if in chess what your opponent does didn't matter one little bit.

    Marketing newbie trap in my opinion. It's a pet system, which is fine, but this is not serious theory and the way they advertise it is plain ridiculous.

    Best defense against 1. c4? 1. c4 d6 2. Nc3 e5 3. Nf3 etc. are mainline English openings. Hardly new stuff here. I am so glad i did not waste time on this but great insights into a suspect line of defense.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #27

    nimzovitch2013

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 20 months ago · Quote · #28

    nimzovitch2013

    The Modern Philidor (The Black Lion) begins 1...d6, not to be confused with the classical Philidor that begins 1...e5. The modern version avoids a strong line by white and has given new life to the defense. The Black Lion I'm not sure if it's completely sound but it looks like it might could be a practical choice on the club level. A good thing about the Modern Philidor, after 1 e4 d6 2 d4 nf6 3 nc3 e5, is many players with white will exchange center pawns and then exchange queens (causing black to lose the right to castle) but black is ok. A version of it is 1 d4 d6 2 c4 e5, not a Philidor, but not an Old Indian either (this actually doesn't have an official name) and if white exchanges pawns and queens then black is doing very ok because the c4 pawn prevents white from playing Bc4, the move that puts some pressure on black in the Modern Philidor. 

    The Black Lion can become an exchange Philidor before it ever gets to be a Black Lion Smile, but if white doesn't exchange pawns and queens then black often opts to keep his king in the center of the board in the main line and launch a kindside pawn offensive with pieces supporting it and that is what is being called The Black Lion, since this is not the typical way of playing the Modern Philidor. It can be effective, especially if white has played h3 and gives black something to latch onto, but it's soundness is to be questioned. They call the exchange line "The Lions Yawn", and there are anti lines given names also, but those are actually just typical Modern Philidor lines, nothing new. The only unique lines are when there is no exchange and when/if black gets a chance to run with his kingside pawns. The black kingside pawn rush, and support of it, while leaving the black king in the middle, is really what The Black Lion is all about. 

    It boils down to a difference in the way the middlegame is handled in the main line. Rather than give the Modern Philidor an entirely different name on a book cover ("The Black LIon") it seems to me more appropriate might have been to call the book Attack With The Modern Philidor! Laughing

    (I deleted the above post, it was a duplicate - almost). 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #29

    nimzovitch2013

    Of course 3...Nbd7, instead of 3...e5, helps prevent the exchange of queens if black wants to avoid that. The catch is that against 3...nbd7 white can play the complicated 4 f4. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #30

    Bill_C

    will have to post a game later that played this as Black to lose.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #31

    Bill_C

    Thiswas an example of how playing straightforward moves can bring about good results against this setup for White. G/10

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #32

    nimzovitch2013

    Straightforward moves worked only because black played badly. Black didn't do anything to guard his f7 square early. With the bishop sitting on c4 and a knight on f3 his spider-sense should have gone off. Book is 5...Be7 and then if white tries to jump on f7 with Ng5 black can castle. In this instance even 5...h6 is an alternative, at least it keeps white off of g5. 5...g6 was a blunder.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #33

    Bill_C

    that is correct. Allowing White to enter into any situation where he can make use of attacking the f7 square is just not a good thing to do, especially in a passive opening such as the Hanham Philidor. You just give White too many chances to call the shots leaving that door open. h6 would definitely posed more problems for White in this position. I played an italian four knights yesterday that had the move 3... a6, deviating from the main accepted lines with either 3... Nf6 or 3... Bc5 to make playing either the FLA or Evans not so palatble for White with a good showing but with any opening, especially in the open games, King safety has to be as much a priority as counterattack and development.

    Still, your ideas on the move h6 were spot on as the DB I referenced gave Black substantially better chances than playing the line offered in the text.

    honestly, the only reason I offered this game as an exmaple is that once Black played 3... Nd7, it resembled the opening scheme as posited in the OP.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #34

    TetsuoShima

    bresando wrote:

    The authors are not elite gms but still much stronger than anyone of us. Calling them "mediocre" is honestly a pretty funny thing to do.

    It's not terrible at all, it's an interesting book. It does however contain several mistakes, so the reader should not accept all the lines blindly. (after all, if you are going to play an unusual and risky line by just parroting published analysis without doing your own work on it, you deserve to land in a dead lost position).

    also the playing strength doesnt give an accurate meassure of someones expertise.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #35

    TetsuoShima

    black lion, philidor, old indian they all look like bohemian villages to me.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #36

    TetsuoShima

    PatzerLars wrote:

    "With the Lion you get a whole new chess strategy and -philosophy."

    Seriously ??

    lol

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #37

    gambit-man

    It's a Pirc Defence. There is no Nf3, so it doesn't transpose to a Philidor.

    Here's an example game, analysis by Ftacnik:-



  • 12 months ago · Quote · #38

    letsgohome

    the black lion and the white horse actually originiated from an anime called gundam unicorn. The more you know.......

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #39

    netzach

    They both sound like pubs to me...

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #40

    gambit-man

    netzach wrote:

    They both sound like pubs to me...

    lol, they do actually!


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