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The Blackburne-Hartlaub-Gambit


  • 21 months ago · Quote · #1

    Dark_Falcon

    My favorite variation of the Englund-Gambit:



     

    Sure...its not fully sound...

    The advantage of this Gambit:

    - you get a slight advantage in development

    - you get open diagonals for both bishops

    - you get open files for your rooks

    - you force a "closed"-game player into an open game

    - you have some nice opening traps

    Is this enough compensation for the pawn?

    Whats your opinion?

    Someone, who has experiences with these opening?



  • 21 months ago · Quote · #2

    melvinbluestone

    I like it. I played a bunch of quick games with the following line, and I think black may be slightly better......

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #3

    Dark_Falcon

    melvinbluestone wrote:

    I like it. I played a bunch of quick games with the following line, and I think black may be slightly better......

     

    An interesting line, but 6.Bg5 is not so good, better is 6.Qc1 as you stated in your comment. I prefer 4...Nc6 instead of 4...Nd7, f.e.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #5

    Dark_Falcon

    pfren wrote:

    4.e4 is a bad Philidor (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4?! 4.de5).

    4.e4 is also fine as an answer to 3...Nc6, but apparently 4.Bg5 is quite close to the definition of a free pawn.

     

    Bad Philidor???...cant take you for serious...the Blackburne-Gambit out of the Philidor is absolutely sound and thats theoretically proofed (f.e. according to Harding)

    - quick piece development

    - pressure against the e4-pawn

    -vis-a-vis Rd8 vs. Qd1

    I dont know what you expect more from a gambit...winning forced in 10 moves?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #7

    Dark_Falcon

    pfren wrote:

    It's quite apparent that your definition of seriousness is severely lacking, then.

    maybe...it would be boring, if your opinion would be the benchmark for gambits...please stay at your standard openings, where your support is really useful, but stop posting unserious comments about unorthodox openings.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #9

    LavaRook

    How about 4. h3 in response to Bg4. (and if Bh5, then g4 or Bxf3, exf3) Surely somone must have played 4.h3?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #10

    Dark_Falcon

     

    pfren wrote:

    To spare you from Google searches: On your #5 position, try finding even a half-decent move for Black after 8.Nd4. Best is likely retreating to e6, but after 9.0-0 intending Nd5 or Ncb5, only a fool would like to have Black.

    An unorthodox opening is vastly different from an unsound one. Apparently you cannot tell the difference.

    8.Nd4 seems to be a good choice for White...but maybe i can take on e2 instead of retreat...?

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #11

    Dark_Falcon

    LavaRook wrote:

    How about 4. h3 in response to Bg4. (and if Bh5, then g4 or Bxf3, exf3) Surely somone must have played 4.h3?

    as long as Black has not castled short, i would retreat to h5, no fear about 5.g4...

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #12

    melvinbluestone

    @Dark_Falcon: "I prefer 4...Nc6 instead of 4...Nd7, f.e."    The idea of 4...Nd7 was to blockade the possible coming exd6 - d7+, drawing black's bishop back and also denying the tempo gaining capture of Bxd6. But you're right, the knight is probably better placed on c6.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #13

    Dark_Falcon

    melvinbluestone wrote:

    @Dark_Falcon: "I prefer 4...Nc6 instead of 4...Nd7, f.e."    The idea of 4...Nd7 was to blockade the possible coming exd6 - d7+, drawing black's bishop back and also denying the tempo gaining capture of Bxd6. But you're right, the knight is probably better placed on c6.

    OK, got it...sounds reasonable...

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #15

    LavaRook

    White is fine and seems to be just a pawn up. Ok his dark squared bishop is meh right now but thats about all Black has and it won't be permanent.

    Do you see anything else for Black? He still has to develop his kingside. d5 in order to free the B will have to be played. I don't forsee some quick kill coming up. Of course, theres still chess to be played but white is fine. White also has h4 with the threat of Bh3.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #16

    Estragon

    pfren wrote:

    It's quite apparent that your definition of seriousness is severely lacking, then.

    Suffice that you take Harding's analyses for real.

    ROFLMAO! - Laughing

    Harding sold a lot of books back when there weren't many chess books to be had, before the internet.  His openings books were a decent introduction to the opening for a club player, but it was never the sort of advice you could rely upon.

    He was not well respected back then, either.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #17

    Estragon

    So if Black gives up a pawn, he gets a move of development for it, roughly a single tempo, two if White dawdles.  The old rule of thumb is three tempi = a pawn, if you get that your sac is sound.

      But you have to have more than a tempo or two.  You need some plan of attack, some pressure to put on White to justify the sac.

    I'm not seeing it.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #18

    melvinbluestone

    @LavaRook: I agree. In fact, in your line, I think white can play 9.h4 immediately and if 9...O-O-O 10.e4, with Bh3 threatened. Maybe after 8.g5 black should just play h4. He might be able to use h5 for the bishop later. But I don't think this position is worth a pawn for black, and h4 may just become a target.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #19

    ponz111

    Just looking at the first 3 moves of this gambit--it cannot be sound.

    My guess is with best play for both sides--it loses--and I will admit to not having analyzed it at all.  There is simply not enough compensation for the Pawn.

    General chess principal is you need one more tempo for the Pawn and you do not have this tempo. And that should make all the difference in the world.

  • 21 months ago · Quote · #20

    melvinbluestone

    To be fair, Dark_Falcon does state right in his first post that the opening is not fully sound. The Englund Gambit has always been considered suspect by many players. Breyer once jokingly remarked "After 1.e4, white's game is in it's last throes." With the Englund, a lot of people feel the same way about black's 1...e5. I play it myself once in a while, because on my level, which is roughly the equivalent on the evolutionary scale of a flatworm, it's a lot of fun.


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