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the London system the dreaded knight


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #41

    Ericatheshrink

    to all you london players .... i'm gonna be honest with you .... using the london is like using the belly putter in golf .... its kind of seen as a sissy opening, a cop out to comitting yourself to devoted chess opening study.  Yes you get playable middle games but it doesn't take advantage of the blitz kreig motive of being white ...it really is easy for black to equalize if black does serious study, so if your ever interested in moving past expert level to becoming a master .... believe me .... other masters really do know what to do against it .... especially in this era with lots of internet study available .... most masters at their level are booked up against it ... for example .... kings indian defence with knight on f6 back to d7.  commit yourself to the study and take advantage of being white.  I'm just telling you how it really is.  Anyone else agree?

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #42

    Ericatheshrink

    forgive me but i just wanted to rant some more, as an addition to my above comment.  don't don't buy into the talk about avoiding opening moves like e4 because of all the heavy theory you have to learn with ALL the different kinds of response by black.  YOU are the one who chooses where to go with what black chooses, and you can make it specific and sweet.  Also realize the statistics.  Most of the time you will encounter c5 or e5.  You can choose a response that need only take you one afternoon of study for each one,  to play at expert level confidently.  For example, against c5 the theme in the grand prix with bishop at b5 is quite straight forward.  The bishop opening for e5 is very straight forward and that theme can be learned in one afternoon.  And that covers 80 percent of the responses you will generally meet.  As far as the othert responses , you can look up a conservative safe response in a few hours and confidently use it.  The pirc? .... 2 hours of study and you get the basic gist of the 150 system .... a very powerful white advantage type opening.  You will need about 10 hours of study to learn the kings indian attack against the french and caro khan (use the 1 Nf3 line .... very powerful, esp against the french). Thats the point .... with this you maintain that smooth natural flow of thrusting chess that being white offers you.  PLUS you really need the variety to develop.  you really do.  the london system is a one trick pony that will stunt your chess growth.  There is a very good book by John Emms called "attacking with 1e4" that highlights very good specific lines for white that are powerful yet specific enough to avoid heavy theory and the themes can be learned easily. So, i am not talking about really that many hours of devoted study to get a good grasp, but its so worth it in playing with fun as white, and developing as a player.   I am a candidate master, trying to earn a few more points to become master .... so i am obviously not a great player, but i think i travelled the road abit to offer you some ideas. what do you think.  please be nice .... i am sorry if i offended anyone with the sissy comment ... i get too passionate with my emotions sometimes.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #43

    Evilution

    Expertise87 wrote:

    unfortunately the London system is refuted by 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 c5! 4.e3 Nc6 5.c3?(system move but it's very dubious) 5...Qb6 and Black is at least slightly better.

    Is that move order mentioned in either Johnsen and Kovacevic's or Lakdawala's London System books?

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #44

    pellik

    eschocat wrote:

    to all you london players .... i'm gonna be honest with you .... using the london is like using the belly putter in golf .... its kind of seen as a sissy opening, a cop out to comitting yourself to devoted chess opening study.  Yes you get playable middle games but it doesn't take advantage of the blitz kreig motive of being white ...it really is easy for black to equalize if black does serious study, so if your ever interested in moving past expert level to becoming a master .... believe me .... other masters really do know what to do against it .... especially in this era with lots of internet study available .... most masters at their level are booked up against it ... for example .... kings indian defence with knight on f6 back to d7.  commit yourself to the study and take advantage of being white.  I'm just telling you how it really is.  Anyone else agree?

    And yet I know one master in my area who plays it almost exclusively, even against other masters. Knowing how to equalize and being out of any danger are not the same thing. The King's English (1.c4 e5) is "equal" as well, yet white still has a very respectable score there, too. 


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #45

    Expertise87

    Evilution wrote:
    Expertise87 wrote:

    unfortunately the London system is refuted by 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 c5! 4.e3 Nc6 5.c3?(system move but it's very dubious) 5...Qb6 and Black is at least slightly better.

    Is that move order mentioned in either Johnsen and Kovacevic's or Lakdawala's London System books?

    It's mentioned in Lakdawala's book who complains that it's unfair that Black has this and recommends avoiding it somehow.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #46

    chessarran8

    erictheshrink let me explain why me and i expect many others do not always  use e4 though their is heavy theory behied it is a opening i played for 3 years straghit from 10 to 13 which is why i took a 2 year break from chess and now am getting back into it. playing the same opening moves each time gets boring, so whats im saying is i do use e4 but the1n again i use d4,g3,nf3,nc3,g3,b3,g4(killer grob),b4,c4 this is why. infact in one of john nuns books he adds about a frenid who did just this he used the same lines in ever games agasint his dad because thats what grandmasters said were the best moves. however i disagree with your comment about the london system being a sissy opening, opening are based on peoples style of play maybe just playing e4 works for you i don't know but it sure dones't for me 

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #47

    steve_bute

    Looking at post #1 ...

    (1) The central pawn structure tends to make Black's dark B better than White's dark B, so White should immediately trade on d6.

    (2) f3 can be prepared at leisure to kick the N off e4.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #48

    Ericatheshrink

    dear chessarran8 and Pellik:  I do very much agree that chess is supposed to be fun, and it is not much fun if you play openings that masters advise are solid and mainline, if you dont like them.  On the other hand, i still believe that it is important to find a mainline opening that you can enjoy, even if it involves alot of study.  This is if you are in it for the long haul and have time to study.  Reason is, the lines that are played most often at the top level is because the good players realize they give you the most punch and best chance.  Yes, once in a while the great masters will play the obscure openings for surprise value, but they cant play them often enough because, with study, the masters can easily equalize.  And "easy equalise"  is not acceptable when your playing white, if your serious about the game.  if e4 is not your cup of tea, d4  or c4 or nf3  are very mainline and serious openings that do give white that consistent pull through the game .  Surely one of those will be enjoyable for you.  all in all,  i thankyou for answering my posts, its fun to agree to disagree, isnt it?  and we can learn from each other.  


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