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trompowsky attack


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #1

    Benb0302

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 2 years ago · Quote · #2

    ghostofmaroczy

    3 c4 transposes out of the Trompowsky into the Seirawan Attack.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #4

    MisterBoneman

    what of 1. d4  Nf6  2. Bg5  c5  ?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #5

    melvinbluestone

    MisterBoneman wrote:

    what of 1. d4  Nf6  2. Bg5  c5  ?

    I actually played this once in a tournament, years ago. I think I was in the class 'w' section or something, in the basement. I think it's OK for black. The line went 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 3.Bxf6 gxf6 4.d5 Qb6, and I think white's best now is 5.Qc1. My opponent played 5.b3 instead and quickly got into trouble. Black has all kinds of shots with Bh6, Bg7, or even e5 immediately.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #6

    Fear_ItseIf

    MisterBoneman wrote:

    what of 1. d4  Nf6  2. Bg5  c5  ?

    Its one of the more respected lines.

    White has a choice between 3.bxf6 ollowe probably by c3-d4-e3 structure or 3.d5 in which case following ..Qb6 4.nc3 we enter the Vaganian gambit (which is what i play) and the accepted follows ..qxb2 5.bd2 qb6 (otherwise rb1 and nb5 to follow) 6.e4, then black has a choice of a few moves ..d6 being the main.

    imo id much rather be white in the vaganian gambit, but I guess its a matter of taste. If youre willing to fight for the pawn then its a decent choice.


    As for the original topic c4 looks interesting. 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #7

    MisterBoneman

    I reckon I base my thought on that sometimes the opponent makes an attack so early in the game (or defense moves, too) that it isn't so hard to repair from said attack, and in fact, sometimes leads to a strong counter attack.

    In the Nimzo, the opponent (white) played 1. d4  Nf6  2. e3   e6  3. a3? ...

    The defensive structure was to avert Black's .... Bb4, but, in this case, I began a transition to a King's Indian because it was obvious he was going to close up the Queenside from a direct dark square B attack. It took more moves than I thought it would, and in the end, I was lucky to extract a draw from the game. (He had played in national championship games previously)

    And yes... I AM looking to replace my Nimzo with a guaranteed surprise. Well, maybe a surprise.

    At the very least, let's say it is an "interesting" reply to d4.

    g6

    d=^))

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #8

    Fear_ItseIf

    As maroczy said, its called the seirwan attack in chess coms ame explorer (may have a more common name?).

    I had a quick check and it is not mentioned in peter wells win with the trompowsky, or starting out with the trompowsky.

    I cant see it covered in torre attack move by move (as this is based off the 1.d4 nf3 and bg5 move order).

    It isnt covered in the trompowsky section of dealing with d4 deviations either :/

    maybe ts not really  viable option? 

    After a continuation like h6 followed by c5 or Bb4+ and bxc3 ruining whites Q side, I can see how black can have a comortable game 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #9

    MisterBoneman

    oh yeah. I forgot. My apologies for slipping off topic.

    The game as shown does seem to easily transpose into several lines of equality for Black. The choices are numerous to say the least. Play as a "normal" QGD with .... d5, bring him to make a decision with .... c5. A "late Slav" with .... c6.

    I am not sure of this statement: IF you can bottleneck your opponents choices, making them fewer, then your job is easier.

    d4 games can have that edge, perhaps, but by a more skilled mind than my own. I sometimes play like a "greedy" Tal. That is to say, I rarely sacrifice (Bobby Fischer said once that he had it worked down to sac, sac, and checkmate, when playing anybody) without seeing that I can get back the piece or some recompense.

    There is a movie called "TROY" and in it, a young child says to Achilles, "He is so big. I wouldn't want to fight him," and Achilles answers back, "That is why no one will remember your name,"

    I sincerely doubt of my up and coming this late in life.

    But...watch out, eh? I'm always looking to improve.

    d=^))

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #10

    ian77efc

    c4 as first move? is the english opening 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #11

    transpo

    3...Bb4+, 3...h6, 3...d5, 3...c5, 3...b6, 3...c6 are all playable alternatives for Black.

    1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 is also an acceptable and playable alternative for Black.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #12

    Fear_ItseIf

    transpo wrote:

    1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 is also an acceptable and playable alternative for Black

    yes, infact its mainline

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #13

    melvinbluestone

    @Fear_Itself: I'm sure you're right. The Vaganian Gambit (fantastic name!) looks fine for white, and well worth the pawn. But once white has decided to retain the bishop with 3.d5, instead of 3.Bxf6, black can interpose 3...Ne4 to try and keep his kingside pawns intact. After 4.Bf4 Qb6 5.Nd2 (5.Bc1 another option) ...Qxb2, it's a pretty wild position......

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #14

    Fear_ItseIf

    You're right, ive played the Bc1 variation, but not the 5.nd2.
    Though I believe 5.Bc1 to be the main variation

    Looking at wells book he doesn't look too favourably on it, giving the following line.



  • 2 years ago · Quote · #16

    Fear_ItseIf

    pfren wrote:

    I like 2...e6 myself. It's as safe as it gets, and also quite ambitious.

    what do you think of the mainline e4 h6 continuation?

    Its weird cause I know white should be ok, but it seems blacks position is simply easier, which is why I transpose to the torre.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #17

    melvinbluestone

     It's hard to believe white can move the bishop three times in the first five moves, only to end up back at c1 (!) and be better! ........ but such are the vagaries of Trompowsky-ville, or something or other. Anyway, in this line, I think the 5...c4 idea is kind of interesting..... This is a blitz game I played with a guy who's partial to the Trompowsky:

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #18

    Fear_ItseIf

    very odd and interesting game.

    cant say im completely convined by c4 though. However, your moves with the queen are not needed. you could continue in a number of ways e6, maybe even g6(?!). The point being for now the c4 pawn is untouchable due to Qb4+. So some improvement could be made there.
    Since the Qa5 b5 idea puts your queen between a pawn and a hard place.


    Ater move 7 I quite like whites position, blacks queen is a little off side and white can claim centre with f3 (qd4 i do not like so much, id rather keep option of having a knigh there at some stage) perhaps nf3 is better with some flexibility.

    I think 17.Be3 was a critical mistake, firstly it created horrible weakness, but trading off pieces when your opponent is in a cramped position is a well known no-no.

    Still, its interesting if you have any more analysis, or sample games id like to see them.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #19

    Estragon

    The late SM Charles Powell was quite adamant that 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bg5 d5 is as close to instant equality as Black can hope to achieve.  Solid without conceding an inch.

    Moves like 2 ...Ne4 and 2 ...c5 can give Black good chances, too, but they are playing into the sort of complicated situation White wants.  I played the Trompowsky as a first- or second-line opening for several years, and would much rather contest games with these responses.  There are more chances for Black to err.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #20

    waffllemaster

    I had a running Tromp battle with a club mate for about a month beginning 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. Bh4 c5 4. f3 g5 5. fxe4 gxh4

    The positions became so odd I coudln't correctly evaluate moves, so I switched to 2...e6 and he stopped playing it  Tongue Out

    2...d5 looks sane as well.


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