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What is the best counter towards The Dutch defence?


  • 20 months ago · Quote · #1

    Vanessa_Martinez

    What is the best counter for The Dutch defence? Im trying to learn some options and counter moves but it seems to all lead towards the same results.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #2

    Quasimorphy

    Have you tried the Staunton Gambit?

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #3

    Vanessa_Martinez

    No, I don't even know what moves those are.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #4

    Quasimorphy

    Here's a link to a lot of Staunton Gambit games if you want to have a look at it. Of course, if your Dutch Defense opponent gets into the Dutch by playing something other than 1...f5, the Staunton Gambit won't be an option.

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?page=5&eco=A82&eresult=

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #5

    Vanessa_Martinez

    Thanks that makes sense

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #6

    ViktorHNielsen

    1: e4 refuted the dutch

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #7

    Vanessa_Martinez

    Well then what do you suggest?

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #8

    Vanessa_Martinez

    thats the thing though most people I play don't play the dutch defense and when they do then for me its kind of a guessing game.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #9

    Quasimorphy

    The Staunton Gambit probably isn't objectively the strongest response to the Dutch but it gives good practical chances which is likely the cause of that popular belief Lakdawala was talking about.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #10

    wiebelenstra

    I always loose with white against the stonewall and I hate gambits.

    Isn't there another reply for white against the stonewall giving a small but decent and lasting advance ?

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #11

    Vanessa_Martinez

    lol the stonewall ? good luck facing opponets who do that.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #12

    moonnie

    If you are fairly sure your oponent opens with the Dutch defence a very good option is 1. Nf3 2. d3 3. e4 (see the game of a very young Magnus Carlsen as an example: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1274856). The move f5 is probably unplayable against Nf3

    If you do not want to guess Nf3 for the c5 answer (like me) the setup with d4/Nf3/g3 is best. Just grap your space advantage and try to force your oponent to either play e4 or play Ne4 and exchange. Then attack the e4 pawn with f3. The remaining endgames should be nice to play.

    @Wiebelenstra: Against stonewall many systems work. The most accepted way is to play aim both knight towards e5 (Nb1-> d2 -> f3 and Ng1 -> f3 -> e5 ->d3) this setup gives black supposedly very little counterplay. Personally i do not like it too much though and i generally play a quick Bf4. This forces the black bischop away from the d6 square (exchanging it would give black a serious weakness on the black squared while g3xf4 might give white a worse pawn structure in theory but also strengthens his center and makes any form of counter play related to g5 or e5 impossible.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #13

    pellik

    The stonewall is easy- trade off dark square bishops and stick your knights on f3 and d3. Black's position is full of holes and you can play against his bad bishop.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #14

    madhacker

    moonnie wrote:

    The move f5 is probably unplayable against Nf3

    Why? Loads of people say this, but I've played it many times and done fine. What can go so tragically wrong?



  • 20 months ago · Quote · #15

    pellik

    madhacker wrote:
    moonnie wrote:

    The move f5 is probably unplayable against Nf3

    Why? Loads of people say this, but I've played it many times and done fine. What can go so tragically wrong?

    This game-



  • 20 months ago · Quote · #16

    moonnie

    The problem is that it is very hard for black to avoid the opening op the position with exf5 followed by d4. In the resulting position white will find nice attacking squares for his pieces while black has trouble with his king placement. In short it is no fun to play as black.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #17

    wiebelenstra

    Nice, e4 in stead of d4.But I love to play d4, but hates gambits.So e4 is no escape for me.

     

    What's the alternative ??

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #18

    pellik

    The main lines of the dutch are quite reasonable for white. You get a nice space advantage and well placed pieces, but it is difficult to make/get at targets so you need to really understand how the game will evolve to not shoot yourself in the foot. Dreev handled the opening very nicely here (imo), showing a good way to play against a Leningrad set-up.


    Also nice about this game- the exchange sacrifice is extremely thematic in positions like this. Sometimes white even sacrifices a whole piece to get those pawns advancing! I wonder if Dreev thought of Petrosian when he played that move. 

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #19

    moonnie

    First of all. Against the squence 1. d4 - f5  (opposed to 1.Nf3 f5) there is no forced advantage. There might be more reliable defences but the Dutch defence is certainly playable and there is no way for white to gain a winning advantage. In almost every position black will have his/her counter changes.

    My personal recomandations (but they might not be good for you !) are:

    1) Against e6/d6 setups. Normal play with d4/g3/Bg2 and later finish development with b3/ba3 or b2 (some gm's like a quick b4 here btw). White has a space advantage but black does have counter chances. Shuffle your pieces around till either you can play e4 or black is forced to play e4/Ne4 that attack his advanced point (either by exchanging the knight or playing f3) Please not that his is not easy !!!

    2) Against the leningrad i like to play and early d5 and exchange on e6 (after e7-e5). White will have more space and the black king is slightly draftly. Still once again black has counter chances

    3) Stonewall is probably the worst setup for black. Like me and pelik explained the best way is to exchange the dark squared bischop (i like to do that by a quick Bf4) and then take control of the e4 square and keep blacks white squared bishop caged in. With all the weakness on the dark squared white is playing for 2 results.

    In almost all variations of the Dutch defence black has dynamic potential to compensatie for positional defects in his/her position. Always be very careful of pawn breaks like f4 or quick attacks with Qd8 -> e8 > h5 combined with g5

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #20

    madhacker

    @moonie, I've seen Carlsen-Dolmatov before and (I might be wrong but) I don't think the reason black lost was because of his first move.


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