8157 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
richie_and_oprah
I am a fakir, extraordinaire.
I am willing to back up my assertions otb, or even here online.
Black is better in the Marshall Gambit, despite database stats, which are wholly unreliable for this line.
Only recently has the correct path for Black been hacked out.
What are you basing this on ? I am going by database stats ( at least that is something ) as well as personal experience. I have played both side of this line and its far more difficult for black to play than white. Actual results do NOT support your "black is better" , in fact it supports the opposite. In any event my contention from the beginning was that anyone trying to get into a semi-slav by the move order suggested had best be prepared for the Marshall gambit which is not easy to defend for black. I stand by that 100%.
Sorry I did not address this earlier. I did not mean to ignore it, I just never really saw it until I went back recently to catch up. I would like to address it directly, now.
I speak from experience from the white side of the argument!
As I stated earlier, I do not believe db stats to be relevant in this issue. One reason why is because unless seriously edited, most dbs inlcude all the games, very early ones before theory congealed, and games in which both players, or either player was <2400 (FIDE). CC db's also tend to have different numbers than otb, but despite cc databases showing better results for black than the typical Chessbase db, I still argue they are wholly unreliable for making general statements regarding the current theory of this specific line. Morozovich has proved the same to be true with the Chigorin and the Albin Couner Gambit....
There are several excellent publications that keep up on current opening theory (and not all are available in english or west of the pond!). These lines have been picked apart over the past 15 years since the last real book on the gambit (from a major & reputable publisher).
The combination of high level computer assisted GM analysis, peer-review publications, current GM praxis, and known play including published analysis with improvements should all have black salivating at the prospects of playing against the Marshall in online chess (or CC).
I agree fully about the conditions that make it tough to play otb. Heck, the Blackmar Diemar has some pragmatism behind it when the clock is ticking, doesn't it? But, theoretically, Black is fine.
I am not a computer guy so much as a pragmatic otb player and the (few) GM's & IMs (several) I know personally that play the D31 Triangle version of Semi-slav all love playing against the Marshall and have shown me plenty of reasons (both otb and academically) for me to not play it as white anymore if I am playing a 'serious' game that I 'need' to win.
In the long haul, I think that theoretical arguments such as these are one thing that make chess compelling. Based upon the number of people posting across the forums, I would say there is something to be said that some of us enjoy this aspect of the game almost as much as the actual game play.
It's psychologically safer.
Golbat
I've studied a bit of the Marshall Gambit of the Semi Slav, under the guidance of a few books and Rybka analysis. I enjoy playing the 8...Qxg2 line as Black. From my (limited) experience, White does not recieve enough dynamic compensation for those two pawns.
NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
Well it just makes sense that the DB winning % is a lagging indicator of where any variation is going.
You don't need a PhD or a JD or an MD to figure that out.
Richie wrote: "There is an excellent piece on this gambit in the Dvoretsky manual, Positional Play, by Dvoretsky and Yususpov. "
When white blunders on move 7, I begin to question your judgement on what constitutes an "excellent piece". That particular piece is part of the chapter called "Sensing the Tempo", and is included as how to punish white's misstep. It has nothing at all to do with opening theory.
Richie, I am disappointed. :-(
Hey, what do you expect from the memory of an old man. I pulled that out from my ...... grey matter.
Was the page number at least correct? The Players names? (Maybe it was in another book....lol)
What about the Watson work and the Hansen materials..... Are they a disappointment to you as well?
Either way, I stand by my assertion that this gambit is better for Black than is the Benko, am willing to play it anytime, against any player, and with monetary wagers involved.
******************
Post Script: I only added these books as an injoke/barb because I know you are into sources. Whenever you wish, I can give you a direct lesson....with reasonable pricing....
I don't have the other books, I'm not gonna buy them with your track record at this point... (-:
Your assertion basically boils down to the statement "unclear is better than provably bad", and on that I would agree.
If you are serious with your first statement, you are being silly.
Seriously.
Track record? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
At the time I read that Dvoretsky book, (14 years ago!) there was no info on the line at all. Now there are several books that include it.
If anything, you should be impressed with my memory that I could remember something from a book I haven't even owned in 10 years. Page number and names of players were correct?
**********************************************************
Good luck in your quest for your title!
Well I'm not buying any more books, I have plenty. It has nothing to do with your recommendations, if it makes you happier.
I do not believe that you recall the page from memory.
Why do I need to study this material when you are ready to play me at least one game in it, and hopefully more?
Ozzie: I guess I need to preface all my humour with pre-emptive warnings!
WARNING! SATIRE AHEAD...hehe
Now seriously and sincerely: Of course I did not take that page and players from memory! I took it from my notes I have on that line in an old notebook. I am an old man and barely able to remember where I last put the car keys and usually even need a reminder to exhale after every breath.
As for happiness, I am not sure I am looking to our cyber chess relationship to provide this elusive state of mind for me. I'll stick to chemical dependencies because I can directly read on the bottle how I should soon feel.....
*****************************
But seriously, A31 is a good line for Black. As good as any other defense, really, and better than a lot of dubious ones. Check out ECO or any other preferred and legit source....
So, I am not going to give any Albin lines, now, as my feelings are very hurt and may even have suffered some long term injuries.
On another note, I do not think professionals are using books too much anymore. Most of my books are gathering dust, even the ones I recently purchased. In fact, I have been giving them away recently hoping some one else can use them.
I think database study is the way most professionals access opening theory these days. Even the so-called 'Grandmaster" series of books are often absolete before the are finished being printed. The Chess Stars publishing house pumps out some great books, but are often picked apart before they even arrive on western shores.
Sites such as ChessPub and others, which provide (mostly) GM analysis of current high level games, seems to be the way to go for up to the minute theory junkies.
Sincerely,
~ richie_and_oprah
richie wrote: "But seriously, A31 is a good line for Black. As good as any other defense, really, and better than a lot of dubious ones. Check out ECO or any other preferred and legit source....
So, I am not going to give any Albin lines, now, as my feelings are very hurt and may even have suffered some long term injuries."
Let me try to get a better idea as to how good you really think this is.
1. Yes, better than a lot of other dreck that gets essayed.
2. Yes.
3. Some people avoid it.
4. Some people choose to avoid this move order.
5. Yes. Most white players u2400 are wholly unprepared to play this line.
6. Not very many, actually. I would play this every chance I get as black if possible.
NM Reb
How often do you play in otb tournies ? When was your most recent ? When is your next ? How often do you test your rigid views otb against titled players ? You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk ?
Kupov
I don't know much about it, but this is what I like to play as black. I believe it is called the Tartakower defense.
My boots were made for walking.
And that's just what they'll do.
I am really just a avid collector of Goichberg signatures.
Chess is merely the vehicle to do this.
Some chess people care about ratings, I care about grabbing those signatures on little pieces of paper recognized as fungible by accredited banking institutions. That is the measure of success in US chess, to me, NM Reb.
Also, I seek to test my mettle against titled players at every chance I get but often find they create some of the most imaginative and original excuses why they cannot play a patzer such as myself.
Care for a game?
2100 CC chess.
I would assume that you're somewhere above 1800, but below 2000.
Just a guess, did I come close?
Sort of ..... but nope.
I am one of the anamolies here in that my FIDE rating is a little higher than my Chess.com online rating. Probably because I do not use books or explorer or db in my games, I think. My USCF floor is 2000....so that should benchmark me....
Concerned about trolling, again
by Dischyzer a few minutes ago
Why do so few players play 30 min live chess?
by 205thsq 5 minutes ago
Piece set recognition
by CLINTEASTW00D 9 minutes ago
Blunder Games
by nickyboy420 9 minutes ago
5/22/2013 - Good Night to the Enemy
by Bryan681972 10 minutes ago
which is better, kings gambit or polish opening??
by Mandy711 11 minutes ago
List of cheaters bug (or intentional by chess.com)?
by Sharrocks 11 minutes ago
Quickest game #3
by BigDoggProblem 13 minutes ago
gg
by red-lady 14 minutes ago
Best chess masters biographies?
by paulgottlieb 17 minutes ago