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When to leave book?


  • 3 years ago · Quote · #1

    waffllemaster

    Ok, maybe not a big surprise, but this question is about leaving book early.  Was looking though some local games (state affiliate publishes games after tourneys ya know) and some class A players are going 15 moves into mainline sicilians and slavs... and nothing could be more boring to me than apeing GM moves under the pretext of playing good chess.

    Makes me want to take up 1.Na3

    So what's the best opening repertoire for a player (like me) who doesn't want to memorize openings?  I mean, should I just go for sidelines in everything I get into?  (I don't want crappy BS gambits either).

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #2

    PairofKnights

    I'm playing each time something different. In symmary, I try to play reasonable moves, which aren't meanstream.

    So, I won't head for a mean line Najdorf, though I won't play Na3 either (as that is just a bad move). As general advice:

    1. Play only moves that seem good to you (so do not play a certain move, only because it isn't theory)
    2. Never play "grandmastermoves" you do not understand (It is fruitless to play moves that are part of a plan, when you do not understand/know that plan).
    3. Always try to head for something. When you play an opening you should always try to archieve something. This isn't about move orders, but about plans. What strategic ideal position can you archieve? Where do you ideally want to put your pieces? How can you make use of a caracteristic weakness in the opponents camp? etc.

    In conclusion, you should make the decision yourself, but keep in mind that when you leave theorie you can better do it in a reasonable way!

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #3

    kwaloffer

    Just form a repertoire of openings that you like. For me, it's the Sicilian (Classical, because it develops pieces and that looks better to me than the Najdorf) and the King's Indian as black, and 1.d4 and 2.c4 as white, but you can choose any repertoire. I think it's best to stick to one set of openings and not change often, but probably most serious players always go through periods of expanding repertoires because that is fun followed by periods of focusing reportoires because that leads to deeper understanding.

    Anyway, then just start playing. Avoid the few variations where deep theoretical knowledge is required (like, don't go into the Najdorf Poisoned Pawn). Just don't memorize the theory and just play chess.

    After the game, review all of it including the opening, to see what you could have done better. In the opening you can use GM games or books etc for that, if you wish. Anyway, slowly improve your knowledge of the theory based on the game you played.

    The key is to avoid the few lines where memorization is necessary, and to base your opening study on games you already played. Don't rush ahead of yourself, it's no use studying positions around move 15 if you never get them on the board anyway.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #4

    NimzoRoy

    I think you're likely to find out the hard way there's a reason why other players are "aping" GMs for 15 moves - or more sometimes. HINT: The less popular lines don't work as well! On the other hand I do a lot of "aping" and have been discovering that everyone else (it seems like) who is aping GM lines for many moves have a TN up their sleeve eventually, which I almost never do (possibly because the few I've tried didn't work). I think you should try a mix of less popular openings (Bird's Opening, non-Morphy defenses to RL, KIA etc) and see which ones (if any) work for you AND you should also try "aping" one or two mainstream openings (NID, SD Dragon or Najdorf, etc) and maybe you'll be surprised to find that not everyone knows the mainstream openings for +15 moves (or like you prefer to avoid them), you might also discover you like a few mainstream openings who knows?

    Whatever you do pls don't limit yourself by always playing KIA as White and a Kings Fianchetto Defense as Black vs everything White plays, I've seen some players do this (not necessarily with the the two openings I've mentioned) and I think that eventually it just stunts your chess development. But whatever you try, GOOD LUCK!

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #5

    afcwheels

    this thread has been very informative thanks guys......what doyou think of the Torre Attack? 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #7

    waffllemaster

    I don't mind mainstream openings, just don't want the main line, played for the last 50 (or 200) years, they've had this position 100 times 15 moves deep, lines.

    I don't want a closed system either.  Ideally I'd make them think very early and play my own stuff... like Kasmky or Nakamura have been known to throw at people... the only difference is I don't have 1/100 of that skill heh.

     

    PairofKnights wrote:

    I'm playing each time something different. In symmary, I try to play reasonable moves, which aren't meanstream.

    So, I won't head for a mean line Najdorf, though I won't play Na3 either (as that is just a bad move). As general advice:

    1. Play only moves that seem good to you (so do not play a certain move, only because it isn't theory)
    2. Never play "grandmastermoves" you do not understand (It is fruitless to play moves that are part of a plan, when you do not understand/know that plan).
    3. Always try to head for something. When you play an opening you should always try to archieve something. This isn't about move orders, but about plans. What strategic ideal position can you archieve? Where do you ideally want to put your pieces? How can you make use of a caracteristic weakness in the opponents camp? etc.

    In conclusion, you should make the decision yourself, but keep in mind that when you leave theorie you can better do it in a reasonable way!


    Hehe, this is sort of what I've already been doing in response to main line stuff... without knowing how to ask, I guess this is what I was asking for... someone saying it really does work to do your own thing... reminding me what the opening is all about. 

    I have some time to go through a chess book and I really don't want to "waste" it on an opening book.  I think I'll hit a general strategy book (like Pachman's) to fill any holes, and when I practice, I'll keep these opening things in mind and see what comes out.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #8

    waffllemaster

    pfren wrote:

    The Torre Attack is cool... White equalizes! 


    I'm mostly uncomfortable as black against d4.  I'm tired of pawn structures involving the squares e6-d5-c6.  The KID, IMO, takes a lot of skill and memorizing to pull off.  I briefly tried the nimzo (only 2 tournaments) but forgot why I stopped.  I tend to switch openings tournament to tournament Tongue out

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #9

    RainbowRising

    pfren wrote:

    The Torre Attack is cool... White equalizes! 


    +1

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #10

    hicetnunc

    waffllemaster wrote:
    pfren wrote:

    The Torre Attack is cool... White equalizes! 


    I'm mostly uncomfortable as black against d4.  I'm tired of pawn structures involving the squares e6-e5-c6.  The KID, IMO, takes a lot of skill and memorizing to pull off.  I briefly tried the nimzo (only 2 tournaments) but forgot why I stopped.  I tend to switch openings tournament to tournament


    A good strategy may be to specialize in the sideline(s) of some main line opening. Look at GM games played before ~1985. If the opening is of a strategical nature, chances are your opponent won't be better than you in the middlegame.

    Some ideas on top of my head against 1.d4 :

    • KID with Na6 (ok this one is not really before '85)
    • Slav with Bg4 or Na6
    • Old Indian
    • all brands of QGD, but especially Tartacower
    • Ben-Oni with Na6
    • Ben-Oni wall
    • Dutch Stonewall with Be7
    • QGA with Bg4
    • Nimzo 4.e3 b6, 4.Qc2 c5 with Na6
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #11

    hrb264

    i dont like memorising openings either and it seems to me that people who try and memorise everything do so sometimes at the expense of actually thinking ... mind you, i can speak for myself seeing how dreadful my games sometimes are :D

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #12

    hrb264

    What i would suggest tho regarding openings, is try to watch some videos or read some chess commentaries about them on the internet, that's helped to make chess a lot more interesting for me and i've had quite a lot of fun trying out the different openings (I like the queen's gambit a lot for example).

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #13

    waffllemaster

    Some of these old indian lines catch my interest, thanks.

    What is the wall benoni?  google doesn't help.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #15

    waffllemaster

    Haha, I saw some commentary on one of his games.  I think it was one of the ICC commentators.  It went like this: "black's worse, black's worse, black's worse... ok now black is better because Mamedjarov is a tactical genius" Laughing

    I tried Benko gambit once and wasn't sure if I liked it... but it looks fun again now :)  Thanks for the suggestions.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #16

    shequan

    you know what works wells? dzindzichasvili's "complete and rapid repetoire for the tournament player" dvds. 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #17

    waffllemaster

    hicetnunc wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:
    pfren wrote:

    The Torre Attack is cool... White equalizes! 


    I'm mostly uncomfortable as black against d4.  I'm tired of pawn structures involving the squares e6-e5-c6.  The KID, IMO, takes a lot of skill and memorizing to pull off.  I briefly tried the nimzo (only 2 tournaments) but forgot why I stopped.  I tend to switch openings tournament to tournament


    A good strategy may be to specialize in the sideline(s) of some main line opening. Look at GM games played before ~1985. If the opening is of a strategical nature, chances are your opponent won't be better than you in the middlegame.

    Some ideas on top of my head against 1.d4 :

    KID with Na6 (ok this one is not really before '85) Slav with Bg4 or Na6 Old Indian all brands of QGD, but especially Tartacower Ben-Oni with Na6 Ben-Oni wall Dutch Stonewall with Be7 QGA with Bg4 Nimzo 4.e3 b6, 4.Qc2 c5 with Na6

    I was thinking about this today, I like this idea, thanks.


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