Every move both players have a choice, but limited by the position the other player just put before them. I am wondering which player, Black or White, chooses what opening the game takes, assuming only sensible moves are played (only strong lines chosen)?

it matters black get to choose the opening but white gets to have an influence in the variation

in d4 white casn choose the opening

I don't know about the OP but I am sure that if we all sat down at a chessboard with many of the 2000s in turn base here, they'd be paralyzed and couldn't contribute to a post-mortem.

An artefact of online-only play I think.

goldendog that is very true I've seen players who are rated 2000 on internet chess play good but once they get on otb play, they always seem to play like a 1500 or 1600 rated player. You ask why is that? I think because they don't have there computers and alot of other things to help them out in there game

but white really starts it all...

Agreeing with what is said about the inflated rating system for corr-chess in this site.

Analysis boards + access to opening repertoire databases while you play might be great for learning, but it sure sucks for those who don't use either and feel their opponents shouldn't as well.

I think chess wasn't made for computers to think for us, thats why we have brains. This all shows in otb play. I play extremley well over the board and I've never used a computer to help me out

I would only add that my main point isn't that 2000 rated CC players are bad at chess, just that many of them followed a completely different path than we OTBers did, spending tons of hours side by side with other players and ending up with some depth of understanding of the game as we asked questions and heard others get theirs answered. You know, those bits of chess wisdom that get passed down by higher ranked players and that would be much harder to come by without their physical presence and kindness.

So the online-only players may even be good at this kind of research chess (CC) but can have huge gaps in their understanding of the game.

While it's not inflation per se that's at fault, I don't expect such ignorance from an OTB Expert.

Hi tonydal, frankly I am surprised that my rating here is as high as it is. I have little knowledge of the opening, I survive on intuition and basic principles...and deep calculation when I feel it is needed, which it is slightly ore often than I feel. I have started using a database recently in order to get a better knowledge of openings, but they are all move oriented rather than position oriented, so they do not really give me what I want (and I have to question their value in play).

Hi Krish, thank you, this is precisely the kind of answer I was looking for  Can you give more details? Ideally, I would like to build a tree of openings/variations annotated with who can choose to go there (and maybe who it should favour), but I suspect that would take quite a lot of research. Although very strong players must sort of have this in their head...

1. White chooses which piece to develop first and Black must choose a defense to it.

2. Black chooses the defense and that is the opening that is used (with an exception to transpositions).

3. White chooses a variation or a way to attack this opening and Black will be able to defend it.

Some openings have sub-variations where steps 2 and 3 will repeat but sometimes with colors switched.

Tonydal you bring up a good point

I see...maybe I should pose a more concrete question. Like, is there an opening that Black or White can force unless the other player resorts to inferior moves? Or perhaps, is there an opening that Black can force if White starts out with e4? (By force I mean that if White does not play this opening, she is forced to give Black a small advantage.)

I can't think of a major opening that forces the opponent into *one* response, all others being substanially inferior.

Later on down into the variations, then yes, but not early as is implied.

Perhaps the offer of material as in the Center Game or Scandi... is better accepted...and better for black to take on d4 in the Sicilian...?

edit: Well for instance in the Scandinavian White may reject the d5 pawn and play d4. Black has the option to take or e6, both mainline enough.

maybe the petroffs defense

Hi AnthonyCG, thank you for this fairly clear description :-)

goldendog, how far down the lines do you see forced moves?

tonydal, I agree that every time you choose a position you also allow a number of choices for the opponents next move. It is in a sense a game of not allowing the opponent to favourable choices. This meta game does have a structure, though, that I would like to understand, i.e. there is a reason that certain openings are played more than others, indeed that "opening theory" exists at all.

If they are forced variations I like to go until I see a distinct resolution. If it's merely very tactical, I try to find the paths that lead to a good position or advantage, being realistic of course and trying to find the best move for the opponent.

Was that a corrrect interpretation of your question?

well then you are getting into the pros and cons of each opening and what is good for each side and how openings match up with your personal strengths and weaknesses.  for this reason, it isnt clear sometimes if an opening is stronger or weaker for a particular side.  i do think that this question is too broad and u should maybe try discussing a couple of specific openings