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Why Don't Pros Move Queen Out Early Like This?


  • 5 months ago · Quote · #1

    defenserulz

    It's often suggested in opening theory not to move your Queen out early lest you have it attacked.  But this happens a lot in my sub-1200 games.  Everything from an attempted Scholar's Mate to all-out crazy attacks.  

    I can see how such moves may not be a good idea oftentimes.  However, sometimes you'll see an early Queen move out that seems OK and unexploitable (or so it seems).  I'm wondering why the pros don't do this (or do they?) in elite, top-level competition?  EXAMPLE:  

    Isn't something like this hard to exploit?  How would WHITE go about attacking BLACK's Queen?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #2

    Fiveofswords

    white doesnt necessarily have to attack blacks queen...its just not clear that the queen belongs there. you have to move all your pieces one at a time anyway...might as well wait for clarity on a particulat piece while you can. The queen has many options about where it may go eventually...the Qside bishop and  kside knigth /bishop (and king itself) not so much.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #3

    Fiveofswords

    theres plenty of perfectly good openings where queens do move earlly...and its fine. jUst this position it seems pointless...the queen really is not doing anything special there, it might actually get annoyed eventually by some Nd5...just why move the queen first? get your kside developed, 0-0, see how white plays, maybe white will develo in a way that makes it more clear where your queen belongs.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #4

    Till_98

    Development- thats the biggest Word in chess openings. In the opening you need to develop all your pieces to active squares and bring your king into safety. The queen on f6 is not only doing NOTHING and is a WASTE OF TIME but its also blockading the important f6-square for the knight g8. When you Do a move you have to ask yourself what this move is doing and Qf6 is simply a pointless and nothing threatening move. Cheers, Till :)

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #5

    lenslens1

    A move like that, if black played perfectly afterward would lead to a draw, but has given up black's winning chances. A white player could play flexible, non forcing moves and wait for black to make a second move of the same quality, when he would be lost.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #6

    shell_knight

    One big mistake by newer players is thinking all non-books moves can be immediately "attacked" or exploited in some way.  As others have said all white needs to do here is develop normally and after 5-10 moves have been played he can ask black how he's enjoying his queen on f6... it's likely black will have moved it again all by himself (no need to attack it) because it's not on a good square and blocks the knight's best square.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #7

    kleelof

    As for your specific question "Why pros don't?" Partly because other pros know how to exploit a needlessly exposed queen. Most 1200's don't.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #8

    -BEES-

    One possibility. Shows that the Queen is more of a target than an asset. It's not crushing or anything, just a bump on the road but White is definitely having less trouble finding places for his pieces.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #9

    I_Am_Second

    defenserulz wrote:

    It's often suggested in opening theory not to move your Queen out early lest you have it attacked.  But this happens a lot in my sub-1200 games.  Everything from an attempted Scholar's Mate to all-out crazy attacks.  

    I can see how such moves may not be a good idea oftentimes.  However, sometimes you'll see an early Queen move out that seems OK and unexploitable (or so it seems).  I'm wondering why the pros don't do this (or do they?) in elite, top-level competition?  EXAMPLE:  

     

    Isn't something like this hard to exploit?  How would WHITE go about attacking BLACK's Queen?


    1. Its the opening phase of the game, you dont attack until you complete the opening principles, unless you can outright win something.

    2. Where is the knight kings Knight going? e7?

    3. Where is the kings Bishop going, if the knight is on e7?

     

    White simply continues his development with 4.Nc3 5.0-0 6.d4

    Beginners love to "attack" even when they have no idea what to attack, how to attack, or when to attack, or where to attack.  Its "agressive", and they think its "tactical"

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #10

    ThrillerFan

    The other issue with developing your Queen early is it gives your opponent the ability to accelerate his development by gaining tempi on your Queen.

    In your example, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Qf6, Black always has to watch out for Bg5.  The problem is three-fold:

    1. White has the ability to play Bg5 at any point, which develops the Dark-Squared Bishop, and forces the Black Queen to move again.  So both sides develop a pawn (1.e4 e5), both develop a Knight (2.Nf3 Nc6), and then White develops a minor piece (3.Bb5) while Black Develops his Queen.  Now both sides make a few moves, and eventually, White plays Bg5.  White develops his Bishop, Black must move his Queen again, wasting time, and White then follows up by developing yet another piece (or castling).  Black is lagging behind running his Queen around like a woman in public with no clothes on.
    2. Black can play ...h6 once White moves his d-pawn and say "HAH!  You don't get the tempo-gaining Bishop move!".  However, you had to spend an extra move to play h6, so instead of getting a move for free via making your Queen move again, I got a move for free by enticing you to play a useless move that would have been unnecessary otherwise, and develops absolutely nothing!
    3. Black can voluntarily move the Queen again before she is attacked, but based on what is already mentioned above, why do you want to waste time making multiple moves with the same piece in the opening, giving your opponent extra time to develop all of his pieces!

    Moral of the story - Developing your Queen too early is more often bad than good.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #11

    chessmicky

    First of all, sometimes they do move their queen out early, but not very often! The previous posters have listed all the typical reasons why early development of the queen is a poor idea, but face it, there are a few variations where early queen development works out quite well. And I thiny I saw a game by Alekhine once where he made 9 of the first 13 moves with his queen and ended up in a winning position!

    In the position you gave in your original post, there is no crushing refutation of Black's early queen development. Even against strong competition, a competent player can play the Black position and probably  hold the game. The reason that pros don't play lines like that is simple, there are other lines that they think give them a better chance for a good result. It's no more mysterious than that

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #12

    blueemu

    One thing that inexperienced players often seem to get wrong is thinking that they can get an advantage by attacking. This simply isn't true.

    Attacking is the way that you CONVERT an advantage from one form into another. To be specific, attacking is how you convert a TIME advantage (usually, better development) into a FORCE advantage (mate or the win of material).

    You obtain the advantage by manover, and convert it by attack. Attacking when you don't yet have an advantage is a good way to lose the game.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #13

    varelse1

    Nakamura has sometimes opened

    1.e4 e5

    2.Qh5!?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #14

    isaacthebird

    varelse1 wrote:

    Nakamura has sometimes opened

    1.e4 e5

    2.Qh5!?

    You beat me to it.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #15

    blueemu

    Yeah, but Naka was just trolling them.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #16

    Fiveofswords

    I think naka even admitted that it wasnt so great. Naka just likes to show of what his talent allows him to get away with, i suspect.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #17

    shell_knight

    varelse1 wrote:

    Nakamura has sometimes opened

    1.e4 e5

    2.Qh5!?

    White has a tempo to spare.  It's easier for white to get away with stuff like this.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #18

    MeTristan


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