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Why not Qxf3 here?


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #1

    cigoL

    My (limited) chess knowledge tells me I should take on f3 with the Queen in the diagram below, to avoid a double pawn, by capturing with the g-pawn. But my new toy, Stockfish (at 20 ply), gives the position after Qxf3 a score of -0.32, and +0.08 after gxf3. Is Stockfisk drunk, or are there good reasons for not capturing with the Queen, although it gives a double pawn? 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #2

    Fawzo

    How you going to get back to protect the pinned knight once black takes pawn on B4??

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #3

    CerebralAssassin

    yes...a very good reason.Qxf3 allows Bxb4 and the only way to save that knight is for the king to lose it's right to castle with Kd2.it can get a mess in a hurry if black chooses to take that knight in which the king will have to go to c3...such outtings for the king in these positions can be dangerous...hence why gxf3

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #4

    Fawzo

    see just beat me a few more games...I'll teach ya lol

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #5

    Trutharrow

    I have Stockfish too cigoL and Qxf3 is the best move. gxf3 does not show a +ve score. Either way it looks ugly for white.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #6

    OPancoast3

    This position should be lost for White either way.  I don't know about Stockfish but the evaluations you gave can't be right!  They both indicate aposition that is almost even.  White's b-pawn will fall and the white King would not be able to safely castle except after giving up another piece.

    Rybka 4 gives -2.58 after Qxf3, and -3.01 after gxf3. Fritz 12 gives -2.97 after Qxf3, and -4-10 after gxf3.  These fluctuate slightly over time but essentially agree.  Crafty is similar.  All agree that 1.Qxf3 Bxb4 2.Kd2 is slightly superior but still losing in the long run.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #7

    cigoL

    Thanks everyone! 

    I'm glad that my own judgment (to play Qxf3) is the better one. Smile And it turns out my Stockfish was drunk, or rather was affected by a heat stroke. Now, when the PC is cooled, the score is very different: Qxf3 (-4.48), gxf3 (-5.33). Both at 20 ply. 

    Maybe it wasn't because the PC was overheated. It could also have been me doing something wrong. Anyway, problem solved. 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #8

    AnthonyCG

    If you have a laptop that gets hot I'd suggest one of these coolers:

    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=3486&name=Notebook%20Coolers

    And if you have a desktop and money to burn:

    http://computer.howstuffworks.com/liquid-cooled-pc.htm

    I want one so bad. Cry

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #9

    James_Bond_Fan

    I wonder how evaluation defers from one programmer to the other? It should depend highly on the opinion and knowledge of the program developer. So, why do you rely so much on chess software??

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #10

    cigoL

    AnthonyCG, I'm running this thing on a silly MacBook Pro 3 GHz Intel Core2 Duo, now on a table with a fan build in. Smile But this machine is way to slow, and I'm actually looking to buy a PC for only chess analysis. But it's a jungle out there! 

    I'm even thinking about building a cluster. Smile

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #11

    cigoL

    James_Bond_Fan, who is relying so much on chess software? 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #12

    Arctor

    You are not a computer

    You are not a computer

    You are not a computer

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #13

    cigoL

    Arctor, if this is addressed to me, you are correct. But what's your point? 

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #14

    Arctor

    My point is that even if a computer thinks that one move is objectively better than another, it doesn't mean that the resulting position is easier for a human player to play (I'm talking in general terms)

    As for that position, 1.gxf3 Bxb4 2.Qd2 Nd4 with the threat of Nxf3 puts White in a very uncomfortable position when he has to move his king anyway, so 1.Qxf3 looks better to my human mind at least.

    It seems you're getting very comfortable with your new friend stockfish (and he's lying to you!!). I worry that it might hurt you in your quest for mastery. I'm nowhere close to a strong player but I've never used computers very much and reckon I'm better for it

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #15

    melvinbluestone

    How did white's pawn get on b4 in the first place?? Granted, if it were on b3, the situation wouldn't be much better, but that doesn't seem likely with the LSB on c4. If it were at home on b2, at least BxN wouldn't win the knight outright, and probably the a1 rook, too. I mean that pawn is attacked twice! It could never have been a good idea to play it there in the first place...... I know this is off topic, but I'm just wondering how white arrived at this position.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #16

    AndyClifton

    Yes, that is a bit puzzling...

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #17

    Fawzo

    Pawns are like kids they never listen....probably just ran across the street on its own

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #18

    AndyClifton

    Figured if it just snuck up on the big guy in the funny hat it could munch him and nobody would even notice...

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #19

    melvinbluestone

    AndyClifton wrote:

    Figured if it just snuck up on the big guy in the funny hat it could munch him and nobody would even notice...


     Whaddya' mean "funny hat"? I wear one of these things when I go bike riding!

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #20

    Fawzo

    melvinbluestone wrote:
    AndyClifton wrote:

    Figured if it just snuck up on the big guy in the funny hat it could munch him and nobody would even notice...


     Whaddya' mean "funny hat"? I wear one of these things when I go bike riding!


    That sure does look like a pawn hat.  You could wind up being a Pawn Star :)


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