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World Correspondence Chess Championship


  • 3 years ago · Quote · #1

    Polar_Bear

    We all know ICCF lost all credibility around all real chessplayers more than 15 years ago, because it keeps silent on the computer cheating issue. Yet still ICCF organizes its self-styled championships, awards computer monkeys with titles and FIDE recognizes them by inertia, which i find quite irritating.

    I got the idea. Let's leave ICCF codgers alone with their casual computerized chess and organize true Correspondence Chess Championship here at Chess.com.

    Winner will get designed trophy and Wiki-page, where he will be mentioned as world champion next in line after the last computer-free champion Tõnu Õim.

    Additional details:

    Players must play with real names in their profiles.

    Only players with >100 properly finished* rated games with >1 year membership can participate.

    *Abandoned games don't count. The issue can be participation of online players from other sites, e.g. RedHotPawn. IMO the 100 games + year membership rule may include also any other online chess site banning cheaters. Thus ICCF-web and FICGS aren't trustworthy sites.

    Qualification groups will be independent tournaments.

    Players will be checked for cheating before tournament starts and during. Tournament committee will have the power to decide who cheated and forfeit their games itself instead of Chess.com bot, including fixing finished games results.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #2

    Polar_Bear

    You can register:

    Preliminaries Group A

    Preliminaries Group B

    Preliminaries Group C

    Only serious correspondence players please. This is not fun tournament for casual players.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #3

    Polar_Bear

    Groups B and C are still awaiting for more participants!

    You can't register in more groups than in one.

    All groups will start at once.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #5

    Polar_Bear

    OneLastBreath wrote:

    The best correspondence players in the world use computers but excell in using their own chess knowledge to guide their games. Its a simple fact that everyone at the top of ICCF has a computer but not everyone at the top is equal, so its ridiculous to call them computer monkeys.

    The best correspondence players in the world have retired and do not play. It is ridiculous to assume that "elite" 2500+ ICCF computer monkey had a chance against average ~1800 chess.com user in fair true correspondence game.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #6

    Scottrf

    Polar_Bear wrote:
    OneLastBreath wrote:

    The best correspondence players in the world use computers but excell in using their own chess knowledge to guide their games. Its a simple fact that everyone at the top of ICCF has a computer but not everyone at the top is equal, so its ridiculous to call them computer monkeys.

    The best correspondence players in the world have retired and do not play. It is ridiculous to assume that "elite" 2500+ ICCF computer monkey had a chance against average ~1800 chess.com user in fair true correspondence game.

    Firebrand is 2240 here.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #7

    DavidChCh

    You cannot eliminate cheating from correspondence games. Cheaters only get caught when they become too greedy and lazy.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #8

    sisu

    OneLastBreath wrote:

    You don't honestly think the top tier here on chess.com all play without computers? It would be nice and I naivly originally started playing here under the impression it was even the case. But If you look up some of the top players here they will have active ratings of like 1700 fide, which is obsurd if you look at the games they play here.

    Agreed. Like one player here that has a 1500 bullet rating (they got this after 6000 games beating up an average field of 1100), 1800 USCF rating, and nearly 2500 Online Chess rating. And this after a 16 year break from chess! It's simply not possible without cheating. But they are a protected species it seems.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #9

    Troggie

    I played (not very well) international correspondence chess when we still used postcards and snailmail. When the IT revolution came along, the various organisations began permitting players to use computers to check moves, but not to originate moves (at least the rule was mostly along those lines). Obviously, there was no real way to enforce that rule, and that has lead to the sad situation we have in international correspondence (and other) chess today. I will watch the proposed tournament with interest to see how the committee handles the issues that will arise.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #10

    Sred

    Polar_Bear wrote:
    OneLastBreath wrote:

    The best correspondence players in the world use computers but excell in using their own chess knowledge to guide their games. Its a simple fact that everyone at the top of ICCF has a computer but not everyone at the top is equal, so its ridiculous to call them computer monkeys.

    The best correspondence players in the world have retired and do not play. It is ridiculous to assume that "elite" 2500+ ICCF computer monkey had a chance against average ~1800 chess.com user in fair true correspondence game.

    Do you think you had a chance against those ICCF GMs who are also FIDE IMs or GMs?

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #11

    FirebrandX

    Polar_Bear wrote:

    We all know ICCF lost all credibility around all real chessplayers more than 15 years ago, because it keeps silent on the computer cheating issue. Yet still ICCF organizes its self-styled championships, awards computer monkeys with titles and FIDE recognizes them by inertia, which i find quite irritating.

    These falacious remarks of yours have been addressed countless times, but you keep posting them to satisfy your own narrative. Neverthless, here we go again:

    1. The ICCF actively allows computer use, so stop calling it cheating in that arena.

    2. The "computer monkeys" as you put it, don't make it far enough reach the finals in WCCC events. It requires a skilled and experienced human to know how to win these high-level cc games above straight computer users. The skill sets are NOT the same as those learned in OTB chess, though having an understanding and knowledge of endgame themes is a huge benefit for avoiding drawing lines versus winning ones.

    3. ICCF indeed does have computer parrots, but these types are used as stepping stones for the more knowledgable players to syphon rating points from.

    4. Hardware isn't everything. In fact, hardware is only at best 25% of what makes for a successful climb on ICCF ratings ladder. I'm a prime example of this, having won the USA CCC last year and continue to climb towards 2500 in SPITE of the fact that my computer is now 7 years old and SLOWER than cheap laptop anyone can buy today for a few hundred bucks.

    You really need to end your smear campaigns on ICCF and focus on ACTUAL cheating that happens in events that do not allow computer use, like the USCF cc and other organizations. Even there the resolve is beginning to crack with realizing how rampant cheating is, and for the first time ever, the head of the USCF cc department officially allowed computer use in their latest tournament.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #12

    Polar_Bear

    DavidChCh wrote:

    You cannot eliminate cheating from correspondence games. Cheaters only get caught when they become too greedy and lazy.

    Hundreds, maybe thousands, cheaters got caught, many of them considering themselves clever.

    The situation would be bearable if people willing to cheat were caught just once and forever.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #13

    Polar_Bear

    FirebrandX wrote:

    1. The ICCF actively allows computer use, so stop calling it cheating in that arena.

    Before we move on, can you quote actual rules or provide a link?

    Really, I haven't been aware ICCF "actively allows" computer use. I would rather say they turn a blind eye to it. Quite difference, isn't it?

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #14

    Polar_Bear

    You really need to end your smear campaigns on ICCF and focus on ACTUAL cheating that happens in events that do not allow computer use, like the USCF cc and other organizations. Even there the resolve is beginning to crack with realizing how rampant cheating is, and for the first time ever, the head of the USCF cc department officially allowed computer use in their latest tournament.

    Do you realize it is not my fault ICCF proclaims their so-called "correspondence world champion" almost every year and fails to distinguish them from true human correspondence world champions?

    AFAIK, my organization is clear.

    USCF CC is in sad state due to years of negligence, but again: by no means my fault and nothing of my business since I am not US citizen.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #15

    johnyoudell

    I did not realise there are reputable events for people who like to use computer programmes. That is good news. If people who like that form of the game can easily find like minded opponents that may reduce the current rather poisonous obsession with cheating that bedevils chess.

    I rather wish there was something similar in athletics, weight lifting and cycling.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #16

    Polar_Bear

    johnyoudell wrote:

    I did not realise there are reputable events for people who like to use computer programmes. That is good news. If people who like that form of the game can easily find like minded opponents that may reduce the current rather poisonous obsession with cheating that bedevils chess.

    I rather wish there was something similar in athletics, weight lifting and cycling.

    It depends how do you define "reputable". Where were you when I ran campaign for WCCC qualification tournaments above? Unfortunately, these tournaments were abolished by chess.com without my approval, because lack of participants.

    (I am going to write Erik a message to quit such behaviour.)

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #17

    johnyoudell

    I don't use engines, Martin (too old in the tooth). And three years ago I had not discovered on line chess.

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #18

    IpswichMatt

    johnyoudell wrote:

    I did not realise there are reputable events for people who like to use computer programmes. That is good news. If people who like that form of the game can easily find like minded opponents that may reduce the current rather poisonous obsession with cheating that bedevils chess.

    I fear that may be wishful thinking

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #19

    IpswichMatt

    johnyoudell wrote:

    I rather wish there was something similar in athletics, weight lifting and cycling.

    Imagine that - a drugged-up Olympics! The althletes could all get sponsored by the big pharmaceutical companies and be plastered in advertising like Formula 1 cars

    Laughing

  • 2 months ago · Quote · #20

    Polar_Bear

    Sred wrote:
    Polar_Bear wrote:
    OneLastBreath wrote:

    The best correspondence players in the world use computers but excell in using their own chess knowledge to guide their games. Its a simple fact that everyone at the top of ICCF has a computer but not everyone at the top is equal, so its ridiculous to call them computer monkeys.

    The best correspondence players in the world have retired and do not play. It is ridiculous to assume that "elite" 2500+ ICCF computer monkey had a chance against average ~1800 chess.com user in fair true correspondence game.

    Do you think you had a chance against those ICCF GMs who are also FIDE IMs or GMs?

    Are there any such players active?

    To answer it honestly: Yes, I think I could compete with great ones from the past (Baumbach, Franzen, Ragozin, Rittner etc), although they would be tough opponents and I might lose some games. I am *sure* I would destroy such nonentities like Dronov, Leotard or Semrl.


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