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why are women worse at chess than men?

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TheGrobe

I didn't either. It may well be the most idiotic thing I've ever seen posted here, and that's a low, low bar.

trysts

Laughing

batgirl
TheGrobe wrote:

I didn't either. It may well be the most idiotic thing I've ever seen posted here, and that's a low, low bar.

Very low indeed.  Throw him a shovel... and some duct tape for his mouth.

Puck021

I thought they were better...or is that just me?

Puck021
trysts wrote:
PhoenixTTD wrote:
 

You are the one that does not understand.  You have to answer why that is?  Why do people not encourage girls in chess?  You'll probably find that the reason is far fewer girls show interest or aptitude.  Sure the exceptions may be caught in the cross fire, but there is not a conspiracy to keep women down.  The sexes are treated differently because they are different.

Why don't people encourage girls to become professional chess players? Because it's an esoteric career choice. Parents discover that their child has a unique interest in the game. One or both of the parents were probably interested in the game to begin with. It comes down to the individual. It's not an endeavor upon which males can rejoice about being superior to females. Stick with weight-lifting or murder if you want to giggle to yourself about being superior.

I am bad at weight lifting...and horrible at murder. Not that I have tried murder.

trysts

Well it's an all-inclusive game where each person tests their chess abilities against one another by playing each other. Age, sex, race, doesn't matter even though a few very sorry people think it's an exclusive boys clubWink

trysts

Then why are there so many threads about female inferiority concerning this game?

ab121705
trysts wrote:

Then why are there so many threads about female inferiority concerning this game?

because there are always trolls out there, racists, sexists who like to ignite people's fuses, and these threads always provoke tons of responses; 99% of people could not care less about gender in chess, or anything else, . 

beeg98

It's unfortunate that more women don't play, but that's just how women tend to be raised in our society.  Women tend to be raised to be caring, men are usually taught to be competitive.  Women are frequently encouraged to be creative, while men are often pushed to be calculating.  And it starts very early, when we give a ball to baby boys, and a doll to baby girls, it teaches them something about themselves.  There is definitely the question of "nature vs. nurture", and it's definitely possible that part of these differences are nature.  But by no means does that suggest that one sex is smarter than the other.  It would only suggest that they use their brains in different ways.  Unfortunately, the "nature vs. nurture" argument is impossible to settle, unless we start some life long experiments on people (think "The Truman Show" only much worse).  And even if we could resolve it, what difference would it make?  As long as we don't start assuming that the fact that there are more male grandmasters means that men are smarter, then having differences is good.  The danger in thinking that men are smarter than women (despite the fact that there is much evidence to suggest otherwise), is that men have used such excuses before to justify many evil deeds.  Political correctness was not born of somebody's fancy to make our lives difficult.  Political correctness was born from the desire to take away the beliefs that have led to genocide, slavery, and institutionalized descrimination.  Of course, I'm not suggesting that anybody here would be that evil.  However, these ideas have been used by evil people before with disasterous outcomes.  Even if there was some sliver of truth in these ideas, the sliver is not big enough to endager the safety of these protected groups.  And therefore, I would suggest that we all just put these thoughts behind us.  Let's accept the concept that we are equals, even if we are not quite equal in every aspect, those differences make us who we are, and we need the variety. 

schlechter55

Since so many sexist trolls in this thread are from the US, I thought that perhaps in the US the percentage of female among the chess players is smaller than in most European countries. I don't know if this is because of a 'cowboy mentality', less 'chess life' in some areas in the Midwest, or something. Please guys, correct me if I am wrong.

schlechter55

yes, I forgot that,Laughing

87654321

If the chess board is a kind of map, this might explain the male advantage.

PhoenixTTD
trysts wrote:
theoreticalboy wrote:
PhoenixTTD wrote:

 Right now we are overreacting to what Hitler did.

Oh, nothing really, I just wanted to point this out.

Yeah, I didn't really understand that?


It is not really that complicated.  Hitler used differences to justify genocide so now people take equality as an article of faith and transpose treating people equally to actually being equal even in areas where evidence suggests otherwise.  This one of the main reasons why ideas of equality have evolved from its origins to meanings that defy common sense.

Right now women are either dumber or they not living up to their potential.  Problem is that instead of looking for answers that could lead to solutions, they are making excuses.  Excuses are worthless even if they are valid.

You have not begun to answer why women are treated differently.  You just say it again a different way.  After you address that, you have to deal with the inherent differences between men and women.

schlechter55

The answer is plain and simple: women are still treated differently as long as people like you , Phoenix, are oppressing them.

PhoenixTTD

lol, I am the reason why women can never be world champion?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You are bending over backwards to make excuses that do not stand up to continued thought. 

Why is it that women can't do this to men?

schlechter55

You now switch to an unfair strategy of discussion: you asked why are women are treated differently than men. Now you claim you would have asked why women don't become world champion (after which my answer would be invalid).

-------

Let me ask you four simple questions:

Would you give a women a job among several applicants (many men) if she is equally qualified ?

Would you give her challenging tasks where she also would lead some colleagues of your company ?

Would you give her all support she needs (flexible working regime, for instance), and NOT discriminate her for having a small child ?

Would you give her same pay for a work done by a man ?

If you answer to all these questions with yes, AND ONLY THEN, I can talk to you.

Given your unscientific and unfair statements here, I seriously doubt it.

Because we have so many men in our western societies who would answer in a poll with yes to my above 4 questions, but in their own life would not follow these simple rules, women are in fact not equal.

PhoenixTTD
schlechter55 wrote:

You now switch to an unfair strategy of discussion: you asked why are women are treated differently than men. Now you claim you would have asked why women don't become world champion (after which my answer would be invalid).

-------

Let me ask you four simple questions:

Would you give a women a job among several applicants (many men) if she is equally qualified ?

Would you give her challenging tasks where she also would lead some colleagues of your company ?

Would you give her all support she needs (flexible working regime, for instance), and NOT discriminate her for having a small child ?

Would you give her same pay for a work done by a man ?

If you answer to all these questions with yes, AND ONLY THEN, I can talk to you.

Given your unscientific and unfair statements here, I seriously doubt it.

Because we have so many men in our western societies who would answer in a poll with yes to my above 4 questions, but in their own life would not follow these simple rules, women are in fact not equal.


First it is not unfair since all along I have been arguing that the reasons why women cannot be world champion are the reasons why the are treated differently.  I am allowed to be consistent with my premis even if you disagree with it.

It just so happens that I am a manager who makes hiring decisions.  I have hired women when I had male candidates who would have done a fine job.  I have done the opposite too.  I pick who I feel would be the best performer and it is never a theoretical tie that those who do not hire like to talk about.

I have put women on more challenging tasks.  In fact I currently have a woman in a key position more complex than others on my team, she has made some errors, my female boss has asked me to remove her, and I have defended her ability and my decision.  The previous person I had in that position was also female and I defended her too to my boss.

And when my assistant was hired last year, she was pregnant and started on maternity leave.  While it was a key position and I was delaying filling it for weeks, chosing the correct person was the deciding factor.

I swear I am not a jerk.  If you met the females in my life they would vouch for that.  I just don't hold contradictions in my head.  I cannot look as this evidence and bush it aside to be nice.  Saying an entire gender is held back by a little lack of support is like someone telling me they were late to work because a breeze was blowing against their car.  Women are not just beaten in chess.  They are soundly crushed in most if not all intellectual achievements throughout recorded history.  Being steered away from some does not begin to explain it.  Hell, men have been steered from cooking and yet they have reached the highest levels.  Genius is not slowed by society.  In fact, is usually rises up inspite of it.  It goes against the grain.  It is a strong mind that is its own inspiration.  And it usually is male.  Why?

schlechter55

I am surprised, really.

What about equal salary for equal work ?

--------

But you have to admit that a person who would behave like you is rather the exception then the rule, in economy.

In addition, discrimination outside of a company is also still there, even in the rich countries: lack of kindergarden places, 'jerks' (as you put it) in the families who put to much burden to the women in daily life, or hinder girls to develop her talents freely.

When you end with your question....'Why?' , I have to tell you that you ignore the arguments that were mentioned in this thread many times.   Excuse :  it is propaganda that dominated for at least 15 000 years.

------------

Given that, it is even more positive what you do in your job.

kayak21

If you were to study secondary education levels in the UK (age 11 to 18) you would generally find that girls are much brighter academically than the boys. Innocent

kayak21
shockinn wrote:
kayak21 wrote:

If you were to study secondary education levels in the UK (age 11 to 18) you would generally find that girls are much brighter academically than the boys.


Thats different. Girls are good with grades cuz they're more serious about studies. Kinda like guys are about chess.

Absolutely, which means that anyone, male or female, who studies chess seriously, will become good at it eventually. It just so happens that more men play chess than women. Wink

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