A Message to U.S.A.

Jump to forum:
15th November 2008, 11:17am
#21
by sss3006
blore India
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 155
neospooky wrote:

I'm married to a Colombian.  I've traveled extensively in South America, Europe, the Middle East, and I've visited Africa.  The self-hating American view that other people in the world all speak 2 languages and we don't is a complete falsehood.  I think this view grew out of Americans living abroad in American enclaves and meeting people that spoke English because they dealt with Americans on a daily basis.  It IS true that most business people who work globally speak English.

However, I ran into NO ONE in Bogota who spoke English other than my wife and one of her cousins.  In the Czech Republic, non-student Germans, Saudis... it was the same.  France has a significant number of English speakers.  I ran into 2 people in Kuwait that spoke English and I was there six months.  They came to the US for school.  I work with a lot of "unauthorized" immigrants where I work and, again, the vast majority don't speak English.

It's good to learn another language.  It's not good to tell an entire country they're sub-par while using unrepresentative examples.

Quizás algo fue perdido en la traducción?


HELLO - ur assuming one of those has to be english. DONT BE ARROGANT.

2 languages do not necessarily include english. I know how to read, write speak 4 languages and can manage basic communication in 2 more. My father knew 9 languages. I dont know about other countries, but in India, knowing 3-4 languages is very common (actually 2-3 would be minimum most people would know now a days).

15th November 2008, 11:18am
#22
by sss3006
blore India
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 155
sss3006 wrote:
neospooky wrote:

I'm married to a Colombian.  I've traveled extensively in South America, Europe, the Middle East, and I've visited Africa.  The self-hating American view that other people in the world all speak 2 languages and we don't is a complete falsehood.  I think this view grew out of Americans living abroad in American enclaves and meeting people that spoke English because they dealt with Americans on a daily basis.  It IS true that most business people who work globally speak English.

However, I ran into NO ONE in Bogota who spoke English other than my wife and one of her cousins.  In the Czech Republic, non-student Germans, Saudis... it was the same.  France has a significant number of English speakers.  I ran into 2 people in Kuwait that spoke English and I was there six months.  They came to the US for school.  I work with a lot of "unauthorized" immigrants where I work and, again, the vast majority don't speak English.

It's good to learn another language.  It's not good to tell an entire country they're sub-par while using unrepresentative examples.

Quizás algo fue perdido en la traducción?


HELLO - ur assuming one of those has to be english. DONT BE ARROGANT.

2 languages do not necessarily include english. I know how to read, write speak 4 languages and can manage basic communication in 2 more. My father knew 9 languages. I dont know about other countries, but in India, knowing 3-4 languages is very common (actually 2-3 would be minimum most people would know now a days).


By the way, ru really spooky? :-)

15th November 2008, 11:43am
#23
by dashkee94
Binghamton, NY United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 193

Most members of the USA don't even have a command of English (just look at the current President)--do you want us to become proficient at butchering syntax in two different languages?  With most Americans, it's the grunt, snort, and point method--it doesn't need its own language to be rude.  But with our continuing series of invading soveriegn nations, more Americans will be exposed to foreign tongues and picking up second launguages.  Be careful what you wish for.

15th November 2008, 11:55am
#24
by sss3006
blore India
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 155
dashkee94 wrote:

Most members of the USA don't even have a command of English (just look at the current President)--do you want us to become proficient at butchering syntax in two different languages?  With most Americans, it's the grunt, snort, and point method--it doesn't need its own language to be rude.  But with our continuing series of invading soveriegn nations, more Americans will be exposed to foreign tongues and picking up second launguages.  Be careful what you wish for.


:-) in the current economy - do u honestly think ur country can afford to invade any more in the near future?

15th November 2008, 11:58am
#25
by wicksta85
The Nasty 'Nati, Ohio, United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 713

Americans:  If you want to learn spanish, stop being lazy and go get a book or take a class.  At the very least, just go to google translate or something.

I take Spanish in school, and it's kinda interesting to see the similarities between Spanish, English, and other languages.  If you think about it enough, you can translate a bunch of words.

It's also not true that most Americans dont speak another language.  Sure, a lot don't, but there are more who do.  Many professions work with citizens from other countries every day.  Also in America, the new generation is going to be very fluent, as more and more schools are requiring other languages.  I know some kids who had to take a mandatory foreign language class at age 10.

Also, remember that English is not spoken just in America.  The British colonized the U.S., so they speak it as well, along with Australia, Canada, Ireland, and others.

In conclusion, it's nice of some of you to try to help others, but if they really want to learn Spanish or any other language, they can just look it up.

15th November 2008, 11:59am
#26
by JoishiBoido
United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 249

Uh - it's not just America, fyi.  Literacy is going to steadily decline across the whole world as teens read less, think less, watch more TV, and spend more time writing text messages on their cell phones than actually TALKING to others.  Let's also not forget that text messages on cell phones don't exactly promote proper grammar and punctuation.

 

I also don't see why many Americans who can only speak English (which, btw, every student is required to take at least 1 year of a foreign language) is such a "problem" when there are also MANY Americans (and many people who are living in America who aren't American) who can only speak Spanish, Russian, or some other language.

15th November 2008, 12:09pm
#27
by Yankeesbest
Morrow, Georgia United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 154

I think it is very serious..... America's average IQ since 1997 has gone down 39.16% (2007)....

I'm not saying that we're stupid, just some forget there education

Americans are stupid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eh9ctq81x4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0j59fNcf_E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmD0V9NnWfw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKMtLOKG8k&feature=related (2:04)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XkgOdb8tdA&feature=related

15th November 2008, 12:09pm
#28
by sss3006
blore India
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 155
JoishiBoido wrote:

Uh - it's not just America, fyi.  Literacy is going to steadily decline across the whole world as teens read less, think less, watch more TV, and spend more time writing text messages on their cell phones than actually TALKING to others.  Let's also not forget that text messages on cell phones don't exactly promote proper grammar and punctuation.

 

I also don't see why many Americans who can only speak English (which, btw, every student is required to take at least 1 year of a foreign language) is such a "problem" when there are also MANY Americans (and many people who are living in America who aren't American) who can only speak Spanish, Russian, or some other language.


Dont know whether using only 1 language is good or not. But american understanding of other countries and other cultures as well a other peoples' point of view definitely seems to be bad  -at least from outside it seems so.

15th November 2008, 12:16pm
#29
by JoishiBoido
United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 249
sss3006 wrote:
JoishiBoido wrote:

Uh - it's not just America, fyi.  Literacy is going to steadily decline across the whole world as teens read less, think less, watch more TV, and spend more time writing text messages on their cell phones than actually TALKING to others.  Let's also not forget that text messages on cell phones don't exactly promote proper grammar and punctuation.

 

I also don't see why many Americans who can only speak English (which, btw, every student is required to take at least 1 year of a foreign language) is such a "problem" when there are also MANY Americans (and many people who are living in America who aren't American) who can only speak Spanish, Russian, or some other language.


Dont know whether using only 1 language is good or not. But american understanding of other countries and other cultures as well a other peoples' point of view definitely seems to be bad  -at least from outside it seems so.


The mere existence of this thread is evidence that the exact same problem exists in other countries as well.  (they clearly don't understand the U.S.)

However - other countries don't usually SEE it that way because they are forced to have a much closer interaction with other countries than the U.S. does.  Many U.S. States are the same size as many other COUNTRIES.  Look at Europe, for example.  In a (relatively) small amount of land you have about 35 countries .. while the U.S. only has Canada and Mexico.  Sure, people who live in Europe probably understand better what's going on with their neighbors - but that doesn't mean they're "more enlightened" about what's going on in the USA.

15th November 2008, 12:27pm
#30
by Yankeesbest
Morrow, Georgia United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 154
dan_in_la wrote:

I would like to see some empirical evidence to support the hypothesis that "most Americans do not speak a foreign language." I think it is a false.  Where I live in Los Angeles, I think the majority speak English and either Spanish, Korean, Armenian, Farsi, Hebrew, Chinese, Russian, or one of another 200 languages. This may be the most heterogenious population in the world. Personally, me hablo un poquito espanol.  Me espousa habla, espanol, francois, russian, portuguese, italian.


Yes, people do learn new languages; I believe as of this year that 58% of the world speak 2 or more languages. Especially for the Coast, for immigrants come there rather to central U.S....

Unfortunately, most people don't speak both languages on the wide world web. Cry

15th November 2008, 12:49pm
#31
by dvwork
Phoenix United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 83

I teach language arts, diplomacy and history to twelve through 17 year olds in Arizona.  One reason that many Americans do not learn another language is that it does not become a need for them, as they rarely travel anywhere whereit becomes a necessity.  Of course, there is little consolation in this or the fact that english is one of the most complex and self-contradictory languages in the world to master.  Why else would someone work to earn a Doctorate in English.  I do not pretend to be the most educated person, so if anyone knows of a Spaniard who bothered getting a PHD in Spanish, or a Turk with a Degree in Turkish, let me know.  Until then I suppose Americans in general will probably continue wasting all of their time in public schooling trying to learn their own language, which they will then continue to misuse and confuse.

I am also curious if there is a significant difference between multi-lingual Brits and multi-lingual Americans, percentage wise.  Again, if there is, one likely reason is the more international need for someone in the United Kingdom.

15th November 2008, 12:56pm
#32
by dvwork
Phoenix United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 83
Yankeesbest wrote:

I think it is very serious..... America's average IQ since 1997 has gone down 39.16% (2007)....

I'm not saying that we're stupid, just some forget there education

Americans are stupid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eh9ctq81x4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0j59fNcf_E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmD0V9NnWfw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKMtLOKG8k&feature=related (2:04)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XkgOdb8tdA&feature=related


 HAHAHA.  I won't argue the general drop of IQ worldwide, since I agree.  However those with actual intelligence already know the fallicy of IQ testing.  Anything over 160 is pretty much an exageration and inacurate; everything between 110 and 160 has an error of 10 to 15; and anything below that does't have much chance of even caring (that last part's more joke than truth).  50-60 years ago IQ tests were only administered in English (the Quen's version) so English speakers were going to score highest (yes, this was on purpose)  and generally the wealthier you were the more exposure you had to things that would be tested.  This is no longer the case (fortunately) but there is still ambiguity to the whole system.

15th November 2008, 01:04pm
#33
by novagold
Essex United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 87

This looks like it could easily become a simple American-bashing thread. Stating that Americans only know one language is a gross over simplification. Suggesting that they because they only know one language someone is stupid or fails to understand other cultures is simply insulting.  

People who know English are less likely to know another language, simply because it is not vital for them to learn it as they can get along fairly well without it as a large proportion of people speak English. You can see the same thing in any place where people don't move around much or the language is widely spoken in that area. That doesn't mean we're too lazy or ignorant. Simply it is not vital so we spend our time learning other things. Exactly which language would you reccommend they learn? The only other language with a comparable amount of speakers is Chinese yet if they went to Europe it wouldn't help. If they learnt Spanish it wouldn't help in most places.

Personally I learnt both French and German in school for three years each. I cannot communicate fluently in either simply because what we learnt was fairly basic and I never get to use it, so I forget it. If you learn English as a language you are likely to see it in many places and this aids in keeping the language in your head.

How many languages a person knows is in no way representative of a person or their culture.

15th November 2008, 01:34pm
#34
by neospooky
Virginia United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 234
sss3006 wrote: HELLO - ur assuming one of those has to be english. DONT BE ARROGANT.

2 languages do not necessarily include english. I know how to read, write speak 4 languages and can manage basic communication in 2 more. My father knew 9 languages. I dont know about other countries, but in India, knowing 3-4 languages is very common (actually 2-3 would be minimum most people would know now a days).


Actually, YOU'RE assuming I'm arrogant and not simply speaking about English knowledge of people I've encountered.  Perhaps subtext isn't your forte.  Or perhaps you're simply another bigot who thinks they know what every American is because you participate in the internet hate-a-thon.  Pretty quick to jump to arrogance as an answer.  I don't know what the truth is, though, so I'll refrain from labeling you outright - like you did.

To be clearer for those standing ready with their 'bash ugly American clubs':

The nations I went to DON'T BORDER English speaking countries - so WHY would they know English?!  By the same token, why would someone living in Iowa rush out to learn Spanish, Russian, or Farsi?

You said it well yourself when describing what it's like in India.  Indians don't go out and learn 3 different languages because they're enlightened, altruistic individuals simply because they're Indian citizens - they're brought up in an environment where they need to speak 3 languages SO THEY DO.  Personally, I didn't need to, I just enjoyed learning Spanish and German.  I can also ask for things in Greek that will get me slapped.  But I don't expect someone to know extra languages just because I do.  And I don't think less of people for not knowing them.  It's just ANOTHER form of arrogance to believe that.

If people are wondering why most American's don't speak additional languages, it's because they have no need to.  I take issue with people who try to paint other countries as better because they speak extra languages.  If they DO, then the likely NEED TO.  It's not a matter of having some sort of exemplary culture, it's a matter of need.

15th November 2008, 03:10pm
#35
by davejitsu
Wading River United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 654

Americans totally self- obessed! You are kidding arent you?  We have more countries here than anywhere.  In fact right here in N.Y we have people from all over the world.  Even other Planets.  I have to agree with monroe.

15th November 2008, 03:26pm
#36
by Astrocloud
Massachusetts United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 21

I find that most anti-Americanism is deeply rooted in nationalism. As far as I'm concerned you may as well just root for your local sports team -it makes as much sense.

15th November 2008, 03:30pm
#37
by CountArach
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 40
MsCloyescapade wrote:

gentlewoman?!


Gentleperson?

15th November 2008, 03:30pm
#38
by davejitsu
Wading River United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 654
sss3006 wrote:
dashkee94 wrote:

Most members of the USA don't even have a command of English (just look at the current President)--do you want us to become proficient at butchering syntax in two different languages? With most Americans, it's the grunt, snort, and point method--it doesn't need its own language to be rude. But with our continuing series of invading soveriegn nations, more Americans will be exposed to foreign tongues and picking up second launguages. Be careful what you wish for.


:-) in the current economy - do u honestly think ur country can afford to invade any more in the near future?   We can just borrow from you


15th November 2008, 10:06pm
#39
by JohnPaladin
Phoenix Ireland
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 128

I personally think that it is simply astounding how close minded and biased some people can be. Sure, there are some Americans that fit the description that Dashkee94 wrote. However, there are many of us who are educated, have a solid grasp of our native tongue and can speak at least one more language aside from English. Im personally learning my fourth language. I have no doubt that in any country that you visit you will find people who are under-educated or who speak or read and write poorly. This, however,  does not mean that the entire populous of that country should be viewed as such.

15th November 2008, 10:12pm
#40
by staggerlee
Clermont-Ferrand France
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 805

Je suis Americain et je parle l'anglais et le francais.  Je connais beaucoup d'americains qui parlent une deuxieme langue.  


Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.