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But, as with law enforcement, surely the margin of error should be tuned in favour of missing the hard-to-catch over inflicting collateral damage on innocents, no?
You are an innocent lad, aren't you?
I did say should....
Richie wrote: "I firmly believe 70% of the people 1400-2000 are engine using 70% of the time and have statistics that prove it to me."
I think this is too high by an order of magnitude.
Question: I don't understand how Fritz alone does not get you to 2400, yet Fritz is better than me by a LOT, and I have made it [once, briefly] over 2400.
I find it suspect that the leading propoent of the undetectability and unprovability of engine assistance has "statistics that prove" some of the hardest to detect cases are rampant here.
It's terribly unstable footing, really.
Ozzie, because Fritz alone on a website is playing mostly other centaurs.
One on one it is a monster. Here it is a pipsqueek.
Fritz without opening book tweaking will get beaten down to about 2100-2200 on ICCF.
Here, it is running at about 2250 peak performance. This alone, is proof to me that user playing against it are users themselves.
BEST SIGN of engine use: If one is using an engine and LOSES to a player below 2400, that winning player has a better engine. What is to not get here?
So, now I have people that have been using and they are losing to people on this site that are 1900. How is this possible? How can Fritz lose to a 1900?
Because the 1900 is using Rybka, that is how.
So am I just lucky that I'm playing mostly humans?
Currently running Alienware Intel® Core i7 Extreme OC's to 3.86 Ghz with Intel® X58 Chipset for deep analysis.
When someone with a Dell Pentium IV runs Fritz and loses to a player rated 2400, there is no certainty if the winner is a centaur or not, but it is most likely they were.
No, it is your badge. It is an intimdating factor, so engine users will shut down against you.
It helps them fly under the radar.
If you register as a regular user and dropped your title I guarantee your experiences would radically change.
My dad used to beat me if I opened my mouth and could not back up my claims.
He is still alive and could be reading all this.
A quick question: could somebody please enlighten me as to the meaning of "centaur" in this context? It's probably been explained somewhere in the thread, but that could be anywhere within 60+ pages.
Chess player guiding an engine.
Straight engine use could get caught up in horizon effects.
Centaurs play out the moves, go back, readjust lines, and then input others lines and test out things before comiiting to move orders.
They avoid typical engine-use traps.
Thanks. I'll now fade back into the shadows.
e4 is way better than d4
A centaur is someone who uses their chess skills to guide an engine in order augment its play as opposed to a pure engine user who blindly copies the engines moves. A good centaur can typically beat a standalone engine.
Centaurs will crush Fritz.
But really to be a good centaur, you need to be about 2000 to begin with.
Centaurs rated 1200 end up as 2100's here.
My own centauring efforts got me to only 2270 on ICCF. With no engine I was rated 1972! Only 300 +/- points for the engine! This is about average for most weak centaurs.
Strong ones could gain about 300-1,000 rating points.
I dont agree with this Richie. My "badge" of NM certainly doesnt stop people using engines against me. I have been beaten by several ( about a dozen so far ) that were later banned for cheating. I think the opposite of you. A weaker player using an engine only some games is more likely to do so in tournaments and against much stronger players and/or titled players. To throw off suspicion they may then lose to much weaker players. I will go through my games archive just to see how many I have played that have been busted for "cheating".
ok guys. i love the discussion, but it's time to move it off the public forums. i've created a group for discussing this stuff here
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