Grammar Improvement

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21st July 2009, 08:10am
#121
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756

I've got a question for you smart fellers:  why is the advertising industry making an attempt to redefine the word "decadent" into something positive? 

21st July 2009, 09:23am
#122
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3859

Apparently I didn't even know the meaning of decadent. Interesting observation.

What I've been noticing recently is the beer industry's gravitation towards the word "responsible". Drink Responsibly. Enjoy Heineken Responsibly. It's brilliant, actually. On its face it gets across the notion that one should not drink irresponsibly, that one should not drink & drive, that one should not drink too much, etc. But the secondary meaning is that one can feel responsible when one is drinking. That beer can be something which can help out in this manner. That it is a Good Thing.

Of course, I am a fan of beer, but that's another story for another time.

21st July 2009, 09:51am
#123
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2592
bigpoison wrote:

I've got a question for you smart fellers:  why is the advertising industry making an attempt to redefine the word "decadent" into something positive? 


In a narcissistic society self-indulgence isn't perceived as a negative characteristic.  How else can one explain the rise of insipid debutantes like Paris Hilton et al.  The Mad Men know we're living in The Age of Vacuity....

21st July 2009, 10:39am
#124
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756

So, Gonnosuke, you have no trouble comparing modern-day America to Constantine's Rome?  It's an interesting argument, granted, but it seems a bit odd to me that a decadent society would strive to alter the meaning of a word that for years has been directly associated with the moral decay of the Roman Empire.  Mostly I find it odd due to my lack of respect for those who make money creating advertisements--it strikes me as a stretch to believe that they are clever enough to intentionally subvert the meaning of such a word--unlike Ozzie's observations about responsible enebriation.

The next time I see chocolate drooling on a cake and hear the voice over espouse the savor of this "decadent delight" I think I'm going to throw a hard bound copy of a Tolstoy opus through the damned screen!

21st July 2009, 12:17pm
#125
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4617

Are advertisers truly the source of this misuse?  It's sufficiently pervasive that I too was unaware of the word's actual meaning.

21st July 2009, 12:28pm
#126
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756

Tell me, TheGrobe, where have you heard anyone use the word decadent other than on television?  Pervasive, bah!  The only time it's used is in history books and on television, in my experience.

21st July 2009, 12:37pm
#127
by owenwilson
Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 74

To ozzie c cobblepot...

Surely it would be much more simple - and  grammatically correct - to say : Topics which I have posted...

21st July 2009, 12:41pm
#128
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2592
bigpoison wrote:

So, Gonnosuke, you have no trouble comparing modern-day America to Constantine's Rome?  It's an interesting argument, granted, but it seems a bit odd to me that a decadent society would strive to alter the meaning of a word that for years has been directly associated with the moral decay of the Roman Empire.  Mostly I find it odd due to my lack of respect for those who make money creating advertisements--it strikes me as a stretch to believe that they are clever enough to intentionally subvert the meaning of such a word--unlike Ozzie's observations about responsible enebriation.

The next time I see chocolate drooling on a cake and hear the voice over espouse the savor of this "decadent delight" I think I'm going to throw a hard bound copy of a Tolstoy opus through the damned screen!


I doubt it was deliberate.  I think it was probably a mistake that "stuck". Unfortunately, advertising plays a significant role in shaping the lexicon....

21st July 2009, 12:44pm
#129
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756

Gonnosuke,

I reckon you're right.  A fella could probably find many examples of words having evolved due to them being used by imbeciles.

The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

21st July 2009, 12:48pm
#130
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4617
bigpoison wrote:

Tell me, TheGrobe, where have you heard anyone use the word decadent other than on television?  Pervasive, bah!  The only time it's used is in history books and on television, in my experience.


I've not paid much attention to the source, I just know that its misuse is sufficiently pervasive that it has drowned out, to the point of supplanting, the actual definition in my experience.  I'm not unfamiliar with the word, just its definition as I'm learning. 

21st July 2009, 01:36pm
#131
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2420
bigpoison wrote:

Tell me, TheGrobe, where have you heard anyone use the word decadent other than on television?  Pervasive, bah!  The only time it's used is in history books and on television, in my experience.


 I have it on good authority that this word is also seen in chess forums.

21st July 2009, 01:53pm
#132
by gabrielconroy
London United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 1528

Obviously meaning isn't handed down to mankind from Mt Olympus, and nor does it remain fixed throughout time.

 

"Meaning is use".

21st July 2009, 02:03pm
#133
by Hurrican3
Ontario Canada
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 100

and my favourite sentence:

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

http://buffaloremix.ytmnd.com/

21st July 2009, 02:22pm
#134
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756
goldendog wrote:
bigpoison wrote:

Tell me, TheGrobe, where have you heard anyone use the word decadent other than on television?  Pervasive, bah!  The only time it's used is in history books and on television, in my experience.


 I have it on good authority that this word is also seen in chess forums.


Do you mean in forums other than this one?  In what context?

21st July 2009, 02:34pm
#135
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2420

Actually BP, it was tongue in cheek. The word appears where people use words. Try googling the newsgroups for the word. There will be found a ton of usage, including discussions similar to ours here.

Decadent food is food for the self-indulgent.  Anyone have a problem with this usage?

21st July 2009, 02:41pm
#136
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4220

Is a nympho considered decadent ?  Smile

21st July 2009, 02:43pm
#137
by crisy
International
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 395

In the film 'Cabaret' Sally Bowles (the Liza Minelli character) describes the nightclub where she works as 'divine decadence' ...

21st July 2009, 02:59pm
#138
by paul211
Ontario Canada
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 1881
artfizz wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Since ending a sentence with a preposition is not correct grammar, I propose the following change to the 'FORUMS' menu.

In" should become "Topics In Which I Have"Topics I Have Posted  Posted"


Would I still be able to find Topics In Which I Had Posted In?


The answer, I believe, is yes as long as the programmer puts a patch in the program to have the new wording included with an "or" for 2 possible conditions conditions which are "Topics In Which I Have posted in " or "Topics In Which I Have Posted"

I think Art that you better that I  and many people can propose an original solution to this dilemna.

21st July 2009, 03:03pm
#139
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4617

"But in this ever changing world in which we live in"

21st July 2009, 03:05pm
#140
by bigpoison
Gilmore Township, Michigan United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 756
goldendog wrote:

Actually BP, it was tongue in cheek. The word appears where people use words. Try googling the newsgroups for the word. There will be found a ton of usage, including discussions similar to ours here.

Decadent food is food for the self-indulgent.  Anyone have a problem with this usage?


Yes, I have a problem with that particular usage.  How can food be decadent?  How can it decline?

I understand that language is not static, yet the root has to mean something, doesn't it?  McDonalds would have us believe that decadent means rich, sugary, and fattening.  It does not.  Decadence is a falling apart--so I guess it would work with some kind of crumbly cake;)


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