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From today's chess.com/tv show, Pardon our Blunders (airing live wednesdays, 1 pm pacific, now saved for on-demand viewing), our third topic:
Last round of the Olympiad. Top match. Israel-Ukraine are tied 1-1. Each team has an advantage on one of the remaining boards, and the team captains cut a deal to agree to two draws, bc it will give them gold and bronze medals. Acceptable team strategy, or non-chess deciding of games?
Acceptable team strategy.
More acceptable than Yemen deciding they weren't going to play Israel IMO
Absolutely unacceptable. You guys have GOT to be kidding me. When the best in the world at their given sport/game are not held to the standards of giving their all, their best effort, etc at all times -- then why should anyone support the game? What kind of message does it send to the most talented youth? That someday, if they work really hard, they can be put in the situation where all critical results are decided by some under the table agreement that has nothing to do with the game itself.
What about the team (Spain, btw) who is playing their hardest with a chance to medal if Ukraine beats Israel like they have beaten everyone else in the damn event??? Is Spain simply SOL because they weren't lucky enough to be paired with Ukraine in the last round?
You have a point there ACEChess!
The question was asked. Opinions are given. Get with the program and stop bullying forum participants
Come on... :Þ
No, the message is that sometimes you should sacrifice personal stats for the good of the team. Such is the way of a healthy community. Sometimes it is the right thing to do to be selfless for the good of the many. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one.
Too bad. They should learn that life isn't always fair. Politics is often stepping in to make life unfair for someone and if it's you, suck it up and get on with it.
There's always two sides to every argument!
At the risk of setting off the profanity filter, SOL stands for sh1t out (of) luck
@Borg - First of all no one is bullying anybody. Chill!
I strongly disagree, and I ALSO have the right to make my opinion known. I have played at the highest levels in this nation, and though I might not have played on an Olympiad team (yet), I am pretty sure I know what is necessary, fair, and standard in "professional tournament play".
Making deals that have nothing to do with the games is, unfortunately, considered standard -- and in my opinion, one of the MAJOR reasons professional chess has suffered to attract large media and comercial sponsorship.
If the best are not to be held accountable, then no one is. That sort of thing has a trickle effect and, I have experienced the wrong doings of those sort of things personally.
In our local leagues here the team captain can instruct players to accept or offer draws. It's in the rules, and I seem to remember (a long time ago) that other posters here agreed it was pretty standard all over, it's agreed practice.
As long as the result is not agreed before the match, we have to remember that team matches are different from individual effort.
I think it's OK.
I've been very vocal about this thing ever since I read the article about these two teams matches for that round all going to draws under 90 minutes the last day of the Olympiad. I've voiced my "conspiracy theory" to people around me, in my blog and on the forums. Was it done to prevent Russia from winning the gold? Probably(Svidler took care of that by himself anyway). They should be looking deeper into this premeditated result and FIDE should step in and regulate things a little more, but, of course, they won't. I'm still annoyed by this and I will be, and I won't cease my opinions about it. Whether Svidler won or not, whether the Russians were kept from winning gold or not, in an event of this magnitude, or any event, this was wrong, plain and simple, and I don't care if I get hazed for it. Me being of Russian heritage, I'm biased, so, this is bothering me even more.
Leaves a sour feeling. Hate it when the captains agree on results without asking the players. Happens all the time...
With you all the way AceChess. Sport with poor sportsmanship is poor sport. The organisers should have the power to act appropriately if they suspect agreed draws are happening - void the games and make them play again til there is a result, maybe.
Agreed draws by individual players or by teams or team captains should be against the rules. It makes a tournament anti-climatic which is bad for our sport. I think the large majority would agree.
I was looking forward to a decent match between these two countries on the last day and was given this mess. I hope the chess world let's these two countries have it, because if I was on the Russian team, I'd be livid about it. When was the last time a chess event caused a war?!?! LOL
With the past record of "mischief" concerning Russian teams/players I find it terribly ironic that anyone would dare to complain about what happened at the Olympiad ! Its a completely acceptable TEAM strategy that a captain can agree with another team captain about the results and the players have NO choice but to abide by the captains decisions....... thats why there IS a captain in the first place and their #1 concern is the best result for the team... I think there are a lot of people condemning the decision here that dont have any team experience, so they dont really know what they are talking about. The Russians had 5 mens teams !!? I know the host country is alwaqys permitted 2 teams but 5 ?!! Come on....... WHY ?!! Has any other country ever been permitted 3 or more teams because they were the host ?! If you fans of Russia want to complain complain to your board 1 , the prima donna of chess who only won 2 games while the best result for Russia 1 was turned in by GM Karjakin who is himself Ukranian ! LOL What if Karjakin had played for Ukraine instead ?! Please........ as for Israel , 3rd was a perfectly good result for them so why wouldnt they accept a deal rather than risk losing and perhaps not even finishing in the top 3 ? Even with the deal Israel was only tied for third , so had they lost they would have finished out of the medals for sure and Hungary would be third......
I've always been the "shoot people first and then give the answers" kinda guy LOL, this just happens to be one of those instances, and it doesn't help that I've been nicknamed "The Mad Russian." It certainly fits the billing!
Do you think the captains spoke Russian while making their deal ? It would be a fitting irony :-)
LOL..ugh. That just made my guts roll up to my throat
some comments saying the captains' first goal is to secure the best team result-- i have to disagree here.
at any chess event, your first goal is to carry yourself as a good human being. your second goal should be something like maintaining the integrity of the game/ doing what is good for chess. your next goal can be something about maximizing results. (i say 'can' not 'should,' cause i can think of some others that would compete).
one of the most important things you can do for chess is to have games decided by chess moves (so basic it sounds stupid saying it!!). so, that takes priority, and you should not decide results by making agreements between captains. you should play out the games. if one captain threatened the other captain, thus scaring him into telling his guys to resign, that would achieve a really good result for his team. but obviously that would not be proper, failing on my suggested first and second priorities.
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