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3rd July 2009, 07:49am
#21
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655

OK, so we want rewards for the good rather than punishments for the bad? I guess that's just my evil side pushing through there! Wink

In your system, is the maximum number of member points available for each post still 1? Or could you theoretically get 1000 member points for one post? A system with many problems, I think you'll agree.

3rd July 2009, 07:51am
#22
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Good trolls are actually quite entertaining and I can really appreciate the art.  The good news is, if a troll is good enough they'll avoid being buried.  I think that this is great functionlity and coupled with a kudos system for the awarding of points could help alot.

3rd July 2009, 07:54am
#23
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616
Nytik wrote:

OK, so we want rewards for the good rather than punishments for the bad? I guess that's just my evil side pushing through there!

In your system, is the maximum number of member points available for each post still 1? Or could you theoretically get 1000 member points for one post? A system with many problems, I think you'll agree.


I'd suggest a combination of the two, actually.  Plus, only ever award a single point per post that has received kudos from a minimum of two or three other members.  It won't stop people from giving each other reciprocal kudos' in search of points, but it will stop members like AWARDCHESS from filling the forums with nonsense in search of member points.

3rd July 2009, 07:55am
#24
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655

While a troll has entertainment value, that doesn't mean we have to facilitate them. While I can get a good laugh from them once in a while, I can also get these from Welsh chess players who accidentally pee on Kasparov, and who also are not trolls, therefore defeating the need for them...

3rd July 2009, 07:56am
#25
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655
TheGrobe wrote:
Nytik wrote:

OK, so we want rewards for the good rather than punishments for the bad? I guess that's just my evil side pushing through there!

In your system, is the maximum number of member points available for each post still 1? Or could you theoretically get 1000 member points for one post? A system with many problems, I think you'll agree.


I'd suggest a combination of the two, actually.  Plus, only ever award a single point per post that has received kudos from a minimum of two or three other members.  It won't stop people from giving each other reciprocal kudos' in search of points, but it will stop members like AWARDCHESS from filling the forums with nonsense in search of member points.


 Then perhaps the only remaining question is whether to make the current status of a post visible to the public or invisible. I vouch for the unseen side.

3rd July 2009, 07:59am
#26
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Funny, that's precisely one of the "trolls" I had in mind.  We probably have a subtle distinction between our definitions of troll.  If the original poster is trying to set up a piss-take on other unsuspecting members (pun fully intended) I generally consider the post a troll.

A clear sign of a good troll is when other members in good standing join in on the joke.  Our Welsh friend is most certainly of the good variety.

3rd July 2009, 08:03am
#27
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655
TheGrobe wrote:

Funny, that's precisely one of the "trolls" I had in mind.  We probably have a subtle distinction between our definitions of troll.  If the original poster is trying to set up a piss-take on other unsuspecting members (pun fully intended) I generally consider the post a troll.

A clear sign of a good troll is when other members in good standing join in on the joke.  Our Welsh friend is most certainly of the good variety.


 I take it that when you say 'good' troll you do not mean somone that is good at trolling, but someone who fits the definition of a troll and is not particularly minded by the community, rather we'd prefer that they stay? This duality is slightly confusing!

3rd July 2009, 08:07am
#28
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Yes.  I don't always find trolls to be of detrimental influence on a community, (although the run of the mill variety tend to be) so I don't really find it to be a problem of duality.  It's a rare troll who is tolerated, and even embraced, by a community but that doesn't make them any less a troll.  I'm guilty myself from time to time.

3rd July 2009, 08:13am
#29
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655
TheGrobe wrote:

Yes.  I don't always find trolls to be of detrimental influence on a community, (although the run of the mill variety tend to be) so I don't really find it to be a problem of duality.  It's a rare troll who is tolerated, and even embraced, by a community but that doesn't make them any less a troll.  I'm guilty myself from time to time.


 My point on duality was the two possible meanings of 'good troll'. And now, I see your point- I've never considered anyone a troll unless their intention is bad.

3rd July 2009, 08:15am
#30
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616
Nytik wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:
Nytik wrote:

...


...


 Then perhaps the only remaining question is whether to make the current status of a post visible to the public or invisible. I vouch for the unseen side.


On this, I'm not sure I understand.  Wouldn't all new posts need to be visible in order for the community to read them?  It's ultimately the community we'd want to determine it's fate in such a solution, surely they have to be able to make an informed decision.

I'm reminded of an old joke about a Russian election:

Individuals were lined up to vote for the new president of the USSR.
When they came to the ballot box they were handed a sealed envelope to
deposit in it.  One voter opened his envelope and was accousted by the
KGB.

KGB:  "What are you doing?"
Voter:  "Opening the envelope to see who I am voting for."
KGB:  "You cannot do that."
Voter:  Why?"
KGB:  "Because it is a secret ballot."

3rd July 2009, 08:18am
#31
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655
TheGrobe wrote:

On this, I'm not sure I understand.  Wouldn't all new posts need to be visible in order for the community to read them?  It's ultimately the community we'd want to determine it's fate in such a solution, surely they have to be able to make an informed decision.


 I'm not saying that the post should be hidden, but the posts community 'score' should not be visible. If a post has racked up -7 points, some people may just follow the trend and hit -. (Or, vice-versa.)

3rd July 2009, 08:21am
#32
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Ahh -- agreed.  An actual secret ballot.

3rd July 2009, 08:26am
#33
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655
TheGrobe wrote:

Ahh -- agreed.  An actual secret ballot.


 Yes. Visible to the admins though, of course- everything must be under complete control by our lord and master... Wink

Well, that resolved that issue. Now to hammer this into the staff's heads, or alternatively, start a non-violent campaign. I'll give you the option of which to choose.

3rd July 2009, 08:26am
#34
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

I'm chained to my desk as we speak.

3rd July 2009, 08:27am
#35
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4655

Oh.

What am I supposed to do with these mallets? Undecided

3rd July 2009, 08:39am
#36
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Have a look around the forums -- I'm sure the question will answer itself.

3rd July 2009, 09:43am
#37
by ShiViChess
United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1458
Nytik wrote:

No, this is not 'How do I get member points?' as, if you would kindly glance a little up and to the right, I am aware of the answer. Also, this is not a thread to get free member points for spamming.

I am concerned that perhaps the name 'Member Points' is having a subconcious effect on some of the members of our chess.com community- perhaps the use of the term 'points' influences people to gain them via silly means, e.g. spamming useless junk on the forums and making blog posts that say 'Hey everyone I'm pretty good today.'

So, I think that 'member points' should be renamed, for the good of the community... but what should they be called?

Or, what else could be done to fix this problem? A voting system for posts? Or getting rid of them? Or... something else?

Consider and Discuss.


 This post would get more points because it would be voted as significant.

3rd July 2009, 09:45am
#38
by ShiViChess
United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1458
ShiViChess wrote:
Nytik wrote:

Cookies


Haha!


 That post would be voted as insignificant and would probably get no points. Also, these posts are just examples. I do not mean any criticism.

3rd July 2009, 10:03am
#39
by BigOto
Kirkland, WA United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 5791

If the moderators are wattching carefully, the spamming members will get banned or suspended, and it won't be a problem.

3rd July 2009, 10:04am
#40
by TheGrobe
Calgary Canada
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 4616

Yes, but that is a very labour intensive process.  This is something that could be crowd-sourced.


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