we're looking at doing takebacks allowed in Unrated games. but it isn't as easy as it sounds, so i need your help :)

one way to do it is to make a request, then wait for permission. but imagine how that would work:

step 1 - ask for a takeback

step 2 - permission given

step 3 - make new move

but now if you want to go back SEVERAL moves? repeat that a bunch of times :)

 

another option is just to allow either player to make an unlimited number of takebacks at any time. if it's an unrated game, then you suppose the outcome doesn't matter and you are playing for fun or education anyway.

 

i'm pretty sure some people are going to suggest things like "make it so that you can ask how many  move back you want to go" or "use the analysis board to go back to the place you want and submit" or "make it so that the players agree on which way they want it" etc. but no, we're not going to do that :) this isn't doesn't merit a lot of time (we have SO much to do ;)

 

so, any SIMPLE suggestions are appreciated! :) 

Maybe add another type of game besides the "unrated game", for example the "educational game" or someting like that. Playing that type of game would give you the option to request a takeback to a certain movenumber (for example return the game to it's state at move 12). What do you think about that?

Both players are able to flag the takeback.

 

So the teacher can click the takeback box, as in "Offer takeback"

and the student can tag the box, as in "Request takeback"

Only when both boxes are flagged, ie "accept takeback" does it occur.

Either side can request, it has to be unanimous.

That's my suggestion anyway. 

 

I'm doing a teaching game right now re: the QGA, and I would've loved this feature to show her how she can win back blacks pawn both with the Queen and bishop. Can't wait erik! 

You could probably use much of the same code as you already have in place for draws.

What about making a general "Takebacks allowed" check box for both sides that is turned off by default, and leave it up to the players to use the chat window to agree to tick that box so both parties now know that takebacks are allowed.  Once both sides have their boxes checked, then allow takebacks at any time for either side, and then remove that option (so you can't keep turning takebacks on and off).  This is much similar to the "disable chat" feature that now exists, but both parties have to agree to it.

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EDIT: Holy cow, did I just suggest the exact same thing as Rael? 

If you do something like that, then Unrated games should not count for any of the stats (except games played, and time/move maybe) ie: it doesn't affect win/lose ratio.

I think the 1) ask for takeback 2) other player gives permission and takeback is initiated is the best plan. I do not like the idea of either player being able to freely takeback a move without permission from the other player.

I like idea from Rael and KnightNotHorse.

tweek a little bit from the draw program to get the people to say it's O.K.

It actually wouldn't be too bad to include it in rated games too.  Sometimes a player makes a horrible blunder and realizes it right as they click the mouse.  That can ruin a perfectly good game, and I wish I could give them a takeback, even though the game was rated.

 Maybe after a player resigns in a rated game they should be allowed to request a takeback.  

Patzer24 wrote: I think the 1) ask for takeback 2) other player gives permission and takeback is initiated is the best plan. I do not like the idea of either player being able to freely takeback a move without permission from the other player.

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 Matt - imagine if the takeback was free like that? Entire games would unravel - someone does a takeback, and the other person is like "Well fine, then I'm going to take back too!" "When fine then! So will I!" Until the game is reduced back into the initial 3 moves and one of the players resigns and it doesn't effect the ratings. Silliness indeed.

How about a double analyse board pop-up with comment box for the two players to share ideas, lines and talk about previous moves.

step 1 - ask for a takeback

step 2 - permission given

step 3 - make new move

This sound like the best thing to do!

but now if you want to go back SEVERAL moves? repeat that a bunch of times :)

and you souldn't be allow to take back several move. just take back your last move 

step 1 - 3 is good

jus let em keep askin each other for takebacks.

 

OOH! OOH! OOH! Thompson is onto something... clear your thoughts and imagine this hypothetical scenario for a moment:

 

1. Erik wins the lotto and suddenly has unlimited time/funds to write code for Chess.com.

 

2. Erik creates a "live analysis" window that has a tiny analysis board instead of chat. This live analysis board would reside immediately below the current chat window to the right of the real game. It would only appear for unrated games.

 

3. The players converse with the usual chat window and move pieces in their normal game like they always have. As they do, the analysis board mimicks the real game (same positions on both boards).

 

4. At any given time, the pieces (both colors) on the live analysis board can be moved freely by either player and can be "rewound" for x moves. They use the chat window to discuss the analysis. These moves have no effect on the real game in progress.

 

5. As soon as another move is made in the REAL game, the analysis board immediately resumes mimicking the real game (same positions on both boards). The real game would not allow take-backs as it would ruin the integrity of everyone's stats.

 

Now that all sounds nice and wonderful but the logistics of creating something like this can be a nightmare. I assume the live analyss board would have to be a Java applet or whatever they call 'em. Personally, I would be willing to WAIT for something like this.

I think both sides must agree at least once that takebacks are allowed, and then the result should not be won/loss/draw but rather "n/a". Otherwise it may embarass coaches to have losses against players rated 800 points lower only because they allowed many takebacks.

Apart from all the logistics of mutual acceptance of the take-back, it would probably be practical to put another button or link on the 'Moves' tab, to be enabled (or functional) only when a move other than the last move (current position) is selected (and so as usual the board will be showing an earlier position)

 

The player hits the "Take back moves" or "Start new line" control, and (if the game is unrated and all is agreeable to both parties) a confirmation pops up, the player hits "OK" (or whatever) and the game reverts to the position shown.  If it's the take-backer's move, he or she can move again immediately; otherwise, the opponent is alerted that it's her or his move.  In either case, when it IS the other player's move, there should be some visual indication (e.g. "DeepGreene took back 17 moves") on the game screen.

 

Bonus points if you can include the taken-back moves as alternate lines in the PGN.  :-D 

 

Ok, I don't know if that qualifies as 'simple.'  :-\ 

 DeepGreene wrote:

Ok, I don't know if that qualifies as 'simple.'  :-\ 

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 quite the opposite :D

KnightNotHorse had a good suggestion

 

This is an image I put together to describe this twin analysis board. Each player gets one board they can edit similar to the way you make a puzzle or post a game. They can also view the analysis board of their coach/student and discuss ideas in a comment box area at the bottom. It can be simplified to only one board by using a tab system to switch between each players analysis board. I think it would be nice if the moves  in the actual  game and the variations could be copied into the comment box to refer and link back to the moves in the two boards. This would make discussion of moves and lines of play easier.

 

For coaching purposes I think it would also be good if the tutor could set-up a position and he could play his pupil from there.