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Can black win here?

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5th January 2009, 07:56pm
#1
by Spiffe
Orlando, FL United States
Member Since: Sep 2008
Member Points: 1938

Here's a position from a recently-concluded game, black to move:


White has just played Ra5, apparently winning a pawn.  I couldn't see a good way to push for a win due to the need to mind white's kingside mini-majority, despite black's threatening-looking pawns in the middle.  I ran it through Crafty, and while it scored the position as significant advantage for black, it's also not recommending anything better than repetition in either the Bxf4 or Re7 lines.  Do you see a win for black that I've overlooked?

Thanks for the input!

6th January 2009, 01:30am
#2
by Tiger-13
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1277

possibly

6th January 2009, 01:31am
#3
by Tiger-13
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1277

i dunno

6th January 2009, 01:31am
#4
by Tiger-13
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1277

not sure

6th January 2009, 01:50am
#5
by Troy-Smith-19
southland New Zealand
Member Since: Sep 2008
Member Points: 51

if whites rock wasnt on the 5th row black could take knight then put him in check wif rc1 the king goes e1 or 2 then blacks pawn goes up and wins but wea whites roc is stops the check mate as black takes knight then white takes pawn then gets biship

lol but i dnt no im not that good 

6th January 2009, 03:13am
#6
by kuldeep_03
lucknow, india India
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 128

well, i think. it's going to be a draw if B*Nf4.

 so, u should move Re7.

now, if Nd5, then Rb7 and

now the game is open for you.

and you will win easily.

because, If Nf4, then Rb1+

and if Kc7, then Rf1, and now black can not be stopped by winning.

6th January 2009, 03:37am
#7
by boots9548
Memphis United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 104

i won't lie, i dont see any better moves than Bxf4 or Re7 but i do agree with kuldeep_03 in that Re7 is probably a slightly better move for black. After Bxf4 the threat of Rxf5# is to much for me to overlook, Re7 is definetly a more flexible move.

6th January 2009, 03:40am
#8
by jcoby
Stepanakert Armenia
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 149

Bxf4 looks draw, materialwise. If black plays Re7 they can hold on to the pawn advantage but their rook becomes way too passive as opposed to the strong white rook. I wouldn't recommend drawing at these stage. After a few simplifications it would be more obvious, the result. I recommend Bxf4 to get equal material but then the white rook will be forced to surrrender its strong position and black may try to threaten with the passed d pawn.

6th January 2009, 03:50am
#9
by mrbruce
London United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 73

might sound completely crazy but i might try 1. ...Rc1+ 2. Kxc1 Bxf4+ 3.Kc2 Bxg5 4. hxg5 Kg6 then Kxg5 and my four pawns (2 of them passed) versus his rook and lonely pawn look very powerful.

6th January 2009, 03:53am
#10
by mrbruce
London United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 73
mrbruce wrote:

might sound completely crazy but i might try 1. ...Rc1+ 2. Kxc1 Bxf4+ 3.Kc2 Bxg5 4. hxg5 Kg6 then Kxg5 and my four pawns (2 of them passed) versus his rook and lonely pawn look very powerful.


 whoops, i missed 4. Rxf5+, so all that probably doesn't work!

6th January 2009, 03:58am
#11
by jcoby
Stepanakert Armenia
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 149

mrbruce, it is totally crazy :) Given the favourable position of the white king (can block the passers) the white rook can collect the pawns without effort. Normally rook vs pawns (2,3,4) is played when the rook's king is a bit far away from the battlefield. In this case the passers count for nothing.

 

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