Did I have more than a draw?

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31st January 2008, 10:07am
#1
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113
31st January 2008, 10:10am
#2
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113
I offered a draw against my highly rated opponent (current club champion), which was accepted after two minutes thought. I can't help thinking that I may have had more. Opinions please. 
31st January 2008, 03:07pm
#3
by Fotoman
Philippines
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 583
White looks lost

31st January 2008, 03:16pm
#4
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113
What if white plays 2 Rd4, with the intention of chasing the black bishop up and down the a5-c3 diagonal?
31st January 2008, 03:24pm
#5
by Unbeliever
United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 1117
I would have played on as Black.
31st January 2008, 03:34pm
#6
by benws
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1318
You could have tried, but mosst likely it would have been a draw.
31st January 2008, 03:35pm
#7
by Fotoman
Philippines
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 583
I think you are correct, if black presses, he might lose. Draw out of fear, nice move Cool
31st January 2008, 03:38pm
#8
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3181
I think the position's drawn with best play, but it's not so simple.
31st January 2008, 03:42pm
#9
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3181

fotoman, in your variation 3.Bb3 is the move that causes White to lose.

 


31st January 2008, 03:50pm
#10
by Am3692
Newbury Park, CA United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 507
That game looks good for white to me, and I agree with likesforests, Bb3 was a bad move to play, Ra7 or 8 was stronger.
31st January 2008, 03:56pm
#11
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113
Am3692 wrote: That game looks good for white to me

It should be noted that black has the draw in the bag. The white bishop must stay on the d1-a4 diagonal, so black can chase the bishop endlessly with his rook (along the 8th rank). This tactic will lead to a draw either by agreement or repetition in a few moves.


31st January 2008, 04:06pm
#12
by TonightOnly
Phoenix, AZ United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 1215
You definitely do have a draw. You can chase the white bishop until repetition. However, I don't see how you have more. 1...a4 loses to 2.Rd4 as you said. Where did you think you had the resources for a win?
31st January 2008, 04:17pm
#13
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113

There are some complications:

1 Bc2   a4    2 Rd4   a3  3 Rxb4 Rc1


31st January 2008, 04:36pm
#14
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3181

If White plays 2.Rd4, Black can force a win. The original position is drawn.

 

1. Bc2 a4 2. Rd4 a3 3. Rxb4 Rc1 4. Bb3 Rb1 5. Rb5 a2 6. Rf5+ Ke7 7. Re5+ Kf6
8. Re6+ Kg7 9. Bxa2 Rb2 10. Re2 Rxa2  -+.


31st January 2008, 04:51pm
#15
by Ray_Brooks
Heart of Darkness England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1113

Yes, I've seen a few positions now K+R Vs K+3P and K+Q Vs K+R+3P, but all are tough finishes, not forced wins.

 

At the time I was thankful to get away from the table, my opponent had outplayed me in the opening and middle-game, making a mistake at the first time control.


31st January 2008, 05:15pm
#16
by Fotoman
Philippines
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 583
What about this? Pretty lines.

31st January 2008, 05:20pm
#17
by Fotoman
Philippines
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 583
in above line if 6Rxa2 then Rxc2, 7Ra1 then Rf1
31st January 2008, 05:31pm
#18
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3181

Fotoman, there's a flaw in that plan. What if, 6.Ra7+?

 

Black's king is very confined. He can't step on the a2-g8 diagonal due to Bc3+, he can't step on the a1-h8 diagonal due to h7, he can't step on the c-file due to Rxa2. That really only leaves a small corridor... d6, d7, d8, e7, e8, and f8. So White's rook can get away with perpetual checks from a6, a7, and a8... draw.

 


31st January 2008, 05:33pm
#19
by neneko
Sweden
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1747

tricky endgame situation, I love it!

I wasn't sure about 2. Rd4 but 2. Ra7 looks even worse 

White can prevent the rook trade by playing 6.Kh1 in the variation but it doesn't help much. 

 

 

 


31st January 2008, 05:37pm
#20
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 3181

The Rook vs 3 Pawns finish in the 2.Rd4 line:

 


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