I would appreciate any comments, help, instruction, etc. regarding the Rook-Pawn endgame in this game.  The endgame starts on move 25, but if you'd like to comment on the moves before, I'd love to read them, too!

I'm weak in Rook-Pawn endgames in general, so general advice is more than welcome.

Thank you!

Well, 37...gxf4?? allowing White to gain outside, connected passed pawns and trade down into a pawn endgame looks pretty fatal. I think you needed to move your king somewhere on the 7th rank to avoid that catastrophe. Then you might have been able to hold the ending... but it would be pretty tough.

36...Kd6? - You were worried about Rc7+ (attacking your h-pawn) and fxg5 fxg5 Rxg5, but 36...h6 meets both threats and also improves your pawn mass. I think if you had played this you should have been able to hold the ending.

As you notice, going into the endgame, your R on d8 is simply defensive, it is protecting a backwards pawn, so you bring your king into the game to protect that pawn. After that though you play b5 which leaves your c5 pawn as his next target. After you played Ke7 you should have tried to get your rook to be more active by playing it to b8 or c8 before you did the b5 push.

As you said you offered a draw and they declined, you might as well play for a draw at that point, and try to trade off pawns without doing anything fancy. Fancy things often get you in trouble, as they did in the end.

Also what likesforests said about allowing Ra6 giving them connected passed pawns pretty much is the end of the line for you. If you had played 35...gxf4+ then followed it up with Rd2 after they play Rc7+ you could play Kd6 and after Rxh7 you cna play Rxa2 and you've got pawns on a6 and f6 and theyve got pawns on b3 and h2, which looks alot more drawlike than how it played out.

Thanks, that's exactly the feedback I love to hear.

Well, as the endgame starts you are already considerably worse.  But I agree that 28... b5 was too loosening.  Even so though you might have tried 29... bc (the idea being to split up all White's pawns) 30 bc de 31 Rxc5 ef+ 32 gf Rb8 (33 Rc6 Rb4 or 33 Rc7+ Kd6 34 Rxg7 Rb2 35 Rxh7 Rxa2).  White's still better, but...it probably would get you more play.

Thanks for the lines and the concept behind them.

I was wondering if you could articulate why my position was worse going into the endgame.  I "felt" that way too, feeling that my king and rook were stuck defending pawns rather than attacking.

But that's just an intuition.

I'm betting you have a more reasoned explanation for why.  :)

I think the two weaknesses, Be7 and pawn d6 did you in.  Maybe playing d6 and c5 before Nc6 is better?  This would transpose into a kind of symetrical english, but it would have been better then the weakness you created in the game starting with 3...Nc6..I don't mean to go on and on but look at position after 4.Bg2 d6; this position feels really uncomfortable all ready!   So in short maybe 3...c5 followed by d6 was better.

Yes, lol, Be7 and d6 proved to be, um, "interesting challenges."  ;)

The opening, oy, ice cream headache.  Your suggestions makes a lot of sense.  I don't know any openings and am baffled by fianchettos, so I would agree that the fatal weaknesses likely started at the beginning.

 

Thank you!

Lisa:maybe we can help each other, In general I get an advantage in the opening and then have no idea what to do, I have a specific game in my head as an example I'll find it and post it.

Yes i know my rating is low but i just started on this site ok!? ;)

Well, if we're going all the way back to the opening...

alison27> So in short maybe 3...c5 followed by d6 was better.

Actually, after 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 this is an ideal time to play 3...d5 before the bishop arrives on g2 and prevents it. Then 3...d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 Nb6 and tyis is a typical position in the English Opening. It's like a Sicilian with reversed colors.

But seriously, 3...Nc6 has been played by the likes of Kasparov, Karpov, Anand, Morozevich, Aronian, etc, etc so we can't blame the loss on this. ;)

i only know how to wreck the Train....waaaaaaaa!

Likeforests:I'm not saying the position is lost after 3..Nc6 I'm just saying it feels uncomfortable, and to me personally it does!  I mean honestly the c-pawn is stuck, if i move to d pawn it's weak..so to me its one of those positions white might be paying black under the table to play!(just my opinion)..as for your suggestion after 3..d5 black seems to be doing fine, this is a fine way to play, but nothing wrong with 3..c5  deal ;).

alison27> Likeforests:I'm not saying the position is lost after 3..Nc6 I'm just saying it feels uncomfortable, and to me personally it does!

Well, usually Black aims to play ...d5 in the English and White aims to play d4. That leads to a fairly open game. After 3...Nc6 4.Bg2 neither side gets in his pawn break and the position stays closed, slow, and positional. It can be uncomfortable for both players if they are not used to such positions. But some players really like it. A matter of style. :)

And of course your ...c5 idea is playable too. It's not as common as ...d5 or ...Nc6 but it also makes d4 difficult, a sortof reversed Maroczy Bind. Lots of possibilities!

We agree 3...d5, 3...Nc6, and 3...c5 are playable. So where can we find an opening error?

As Lisa noted, I think 4...d6 / 5...Be7. The bishop looks quite cramped. Getting in ...Bb4 or ...Bc5 before playing ...d6 might have made more sense. Why trap the bishop?

3...Nc6 4.Bg2 g6 5.Nf3 Bg7 also makes sense. After 6.O-O O-O White can play 7.d4 but after 7...exd4 8.Nxd4 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 and Black is ok (this is of the key positions of the closed English, though it can be reached via many move orders).

I play the English, which is why I'm very interested in the begining of this game. :)

Cool!  Thoughts on the opening, too. 

4....d6 perplexes me in retrospect.  Since I don't know openings, I simply play them tactically, as I would with middle/endgames.  I can't recall what I was thinking with this move.  ???  Getting the bishop out first makes eminent sense.

Thanks for the lines for the opening.  If I ever recognize I'm playing the English again, I'll let you know.  ;)

 

Alison, we're kindred spirits.  Here's some books/resources from an earlier thread you might find helpful:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/can-you-help-a-timid-pussy-cat-turn-into-a-bloodthirsty-lion

 

Katt--Chin up.  You do a fine job of eluding train authorities in ATV's while sotted.  Now that's impressive.    ;)

it is useful to know the ideas behind the openings - likesforests provided some input on this particular one; Reuben Fine's 'Ideas behind the chess openings' though dated is still quite instructive; and MCO-14's introductory pages of each opening give a lot of ideas behind them, though of necessity cryptically - you have to play through the lines.

Also recognising transpositions: what started as one opening becomes another: it comes with experience... and it is useful only when you know the ideas behind the opening veriations...

"Chess is not an easy game" - Andrew Soltis

i think 10...c5 is where you endgame problems start!  with that move, you've given yourself a backward pawn on d6, which is made worse by the fact that white's got an open file in front of it to direct all kinds of pieces at it, and he's got all kinds of pieces that can take now take advantage of the now weak d5 square.

watch how your opponent uses that d5 square...it haunts you the rest of the game!  and trading off the light-squared bishops didn't help, because in doing so you've surrendered your best remaining defender of d5.  With the pawn structure the way it is, white is bound to be ahead trading down into an endgame.

I know this isn't anything about the actual endgame itself, but i just wanted to point out that the simple early moves like 10...c5 foreshadow how your endgame situation will be.

32.) ... g5?  is too agressive for black in the above position.  Instead, I offer 32.) ... g6  33.) Rc6 Rd6 with a nice buildup of pawns for Black on the King-side of the board. 

Thanks!  I was wondering about g5 too when I made the move.  Glad you addressed it.  :)