Probability of minor piece pawnless ending

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12th May 2008, 06:33pm
#1
by Lousy
Sunway Malaysia
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 268

Dear Chess lovers,

 I am just wondering have you ever faced or played 

1) Kt+B+K vs lone K (pawnless ending). What was the outcome?

2) 2B+K vs K  (pawnless ending). What was the outcome?

3) how many years have you played chess? how many games of chess have you played ?(including regular, CC, real-time, blitz and lightning/speed)


12th May 2008, 06:37pm
#2
by Lousy
Sunway Malaysia
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 268

I will start first:

1) Never

2) Never

3) About 15 years. I think I reached more than 1000++ chess games. I never faced pawnless minor piece endings. Most pawnless endings I faced/played are Q or R vs K.

 


12th May 2008, 06:57pm
#3
by jjjmmmccc177
philadelphia United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 32

i guess im second then...

 

1) never

2) yes, once. and it took me about 20 moves to checkmate him, after the last pieces were traded off(other then the 2 bishops)

3) 10 years and 500-750 games maybe (thats a guess, but probably close) 


12th May 2008, 07:00pm
#4
by Lousy
Sunway Malaysia
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 268
jjjmmmccc177 wrote:

i guess im second then...

 

1) never

2) yes, once. and it took me about 20 moves to checkmate him, after the last pieces were traded off(other then the 2 bishops)

3) 10 years and 500-750 games maybe (thats a guess, but probably close) 


 have you ever studied the 2B vs K checkmate?

 

 


12th May 2008, 07:04pm
#5
by Jambux_Josh
Garden Grove, Ca United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 170

1) never

2)a couple of times. the result was a victory.

3) a long time. on and off and always fun.


12th May 2008, 07:14pm
#6
by deadpoetic
Elk Grove CA United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 487

1) im guessing ur asking knight+bishop+king vs lone king... I havnt played this in a real game but on chessmaster 11th edition u can play against the computer with those pieces. You can always checkmate if you  have a knight and a bishop vs a king (just takes a bit of practice)

2) also not in a realy game and again have  played this in chessmaster and chess mentor and you can always checkmate

3) Ive been playing for bout 4 monthes and ive played 300ish games. Most have been long (10 mins plus 15 secounds per game) and latly ive started to play 5 min blitz games with good results. Ive played errm bout 30 turn based games on chess.com (rated 1470)


12th May 2008, 07:57pm
#7
by jjjmmmccc177
philadelphia United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 32
Lousy wrote: jjjmmmccc177 wrote:

i guess im second then...

 

1) never

2) yes, once. and it took me about 20 moves to checkmate him, after the last pieces were traded off(other then the 2 bishops)

3) 10 years and 500-750 games maybe (thats a guess, but probably close) 


 have you ever studied the 2B vs K checkmate?

 

 


 me? now i have, but that game came early in my career and it took me a little to figure out what to do


13th May 2008, 12:25am
#8
by NM tonydal
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 4668

I did get 2Bs vs King on about my 10th USCF game (back in 1975).  Actually, it briefly was 2Bs vs Kt--but fortunately I was able to win his piece and wrap things up after that.

 

I also had R+B vs R in my first dozen games or so.  I lasted for about 30 moves before having to resign.

 

The weirdest endgame I've ever gotten without pawns was R+B+Kt versus Queen!  Against my computer.  I was only able to hold on for about 20 moves.

 

All this somehow reminds me of Botvinnik's book about the 1941 Soviet Championship.  In the middle of it he analyzes 2 Kts vs Pawn--and I was wondering why he was bringing up this arcane ending in the middle of a tournament book; and then it turned out to be one of the games!--with Lilienthal (I think it was) unable to win it.  Botvinnik expressed his surprise that Lilienthal hadn't yet figured out how to crack that nut, since he'd gotten the endgame no fewer than twice before!  I mean...I've never ever seen anyone get that endgame--and this guy gets it three times.


13th May 2008, 12:57am
#9
by silentfilmstar13
Medford, OR United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2143

1. Never

 

2. Never

 

3. Just a few years, but I've logged over 7,000 games online, play at a weekly club and played every day for hours at my coffee shop for about six months. 


13th May 2008, 08:55pm
#10
by Lousy
Sunway Malaysia
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 268

To tell you honestly I never met anyone that faced 2Kt vs K + P yet. Lilienthal must be very lucky/cursed to face that kinda of ending 3 times !!

 These 2kts vs k+P or Kt+B vs K endgames require some study time and maintaing that knowledge and the probabilities of facing them are so small (less than 0.001%) why bother with them.

 


13th May 2008, 10:38pm
#11
by deadpoetic
Elk Grove CA United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 487

chessmaster makes it easier to study kt+b vs k... lol i still have to complete the challenge (tried it once for a couple mins and left it for another day)


13th May 2008, 11:05pm
#12
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 4407

Lousy> These 2kts vs k+P or Kt+B vs K endgames require some study time and maintaing that knowledge and the probabilities of facing them are so small (less than 0.001%) why bother with them.

+ It takes maybe 4.5 hours to learn and 1.5 hours / year to maintain B+N. It's not so difficult as some people make it out to be.

+ The benefits of learning how to coordinate B+N go beyond the simple mate, indeed, that's one of the biggest reasons to learn it.

+ The chance is 0.02% that a particular game will end with a B+N, but being confident you can handle B+N will affect more of your games because you won't be worried about trading down to that ending, just like a knowledge of pawn endings helps in many rook endings.


 

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