rook + 2 pawns vs Rook

• 17 months ago · Quote · #1

• 17 months ago · Quote · #2

How would you win this position for white?  The black rook has a lot of annoying check, depending on how white tries to make progress...

• 17 months ago · Quote · #4
• 17 months ago · Quote · #5

Note to the above diagram:  There are a lot of variations.  However, the main idea is that because Black's rook cannot continually check, White uses the pawns to shield the king.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #6
woton wrote:

woton's solution is incorrect, based on Rxg6+ stalemate.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #7

tablebases say Rh7 and Rd7 are the quickest way to mate, mate in 19.  g6 gives mate in 21.

Interestingly enough, white can make one and only one move that draws, which is of all things h7+.

Tablebases are a crude way to study endgames...  understanding is more important, right?

• 17 months ago · Quote · #8

I played around with this for about an hour after I messed up my first attempt.  White has to use both the rook and the pawns to shield the king from checks.  It's a long drawn out process (eventually White has threats of either checkmate or pawn promotion, and Black cannot stop them all).

• 17 months ago · Quote · #9

Its not so simple, and nobody has actually posted the moves which are the solution!!

• 17 months ago · Quote · #10

There is not a single simple solution.  Here's one possibility:

This is one of the variations that I looked at (all of which result in checkmate or pawn promotion).  It is by no means perfectly played - the idea is to continually threaten a back-rank mate, advance the pawns, and protect the king from check.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #11

After Ra7, Black can just play Kg8 and the position repeats...

Your earlier solution over-looked Rxg6 stalemate..

Perhaps you are also around the same rating as me :)

• 17 months ago · Quote · #12

I was just providing some food for thought.  After Kg8, h7+ or Kh5 offer some possibilities.  As I stated, it is not a simple forced win.  It requires some thought along the way. (I'm not a strong player, but I have played this endgame successfully many times - probably because my opponents weren't much better than I am)

We know from previous posts that endgame tablebases show it as a win for White.  I can only come up with a general idea of how to proceed.  I'm not good enough to find a foolproof method.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #13

Few years ago i drew this exact same thing OTB, couldnt find a win.

IIRC, i checked tablebases then, and white has to be very accurate, there are many drawing blunders to be made, not as easy as some would suggest.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #14

It's one of those endings that I could spend a lot of time studying, and then forget everything when I encountered it in a game (I've been playing with it using Fritz 9 and after 9 moves, I'm informed that there is a forced checkmate in 30 moves - too much for my feeble mind.)

• 17 months ago · Quote · #15
woton wrote:

It's one of those endings that I could spend a lot of time studying, and then forget everything when I encountered it in a game (I've been playing with it using Fritz 9 and after 9 moves, I'm informed that there is a forced checkmate in 30 moves - too much for my feeble mind.)

The goal is not to calculate a 30 move checkmate, but to find the moves that make sense, step by step..

Actually, g6 is the theoretical idea here...  setting up the back rank mate,...  Now there is really a basic technique from there,..

I got this out of Jeremy Silman's Endgame Course, he explains the win very simply..  but he overlooked the Rc1 move after Kf5, so that is why I'm checking on that.

The win is still basically the same technique, but the checks are annoying to deal with...

Woton, you won't become a stronger player till you learn these techniques and apply them..

• 17 months ago · Quote · #16

g + h pawns theory is hard... there are some very unintuitive zugzwang positions when the kings and rooks are on different non-ideal squares.  And if you've never seen it before you can stumble into a draw even in the OP's position.

• 17 months ago · Quote · #17

This is actually oneof the easier mates to learn...try learning bishop and knight mate :)