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White to play and draw


  • 6 years ago · Quote · #1

    TonightOnly

    For white to find a draw in this position, he must remember one important endgame principle...

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #2

    P_U_N

    and I'm guessing that principal is how to properly create a puzzle.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #3

    TonightOnly

    P_U_N wrote:

    and I'm guessing that principal is how to properly create a puzzle.


    I have found the draw and played through all the lines, and it checks out. I guarantee that it is your analysis that is faulty and not the puzzle.

    If you think the puzzle is flawed, why don't you give me your line? It's Benko for crying out loud. Wouldn't you just trust that it is correct?

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #4

    Fidel_Dolan

    Leave Black stuck with the rook pawn. Hey, did you find this from Benko, or Silman's Complete Endgame Course? I only have the latter book, and I instantly recognized it. (Also instantly solved it when I first found it, despite being nowhere near the C class the puzzle was rated for...)

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #5

    Torkil

    I give what I think the solution is in white colour so as not to spoil the fun for later solvers. To read it just mark the text below.

    1.Rg1 (any other rook moves result in 1...Bf1) 1...Bf1 (1...g5 2.Rxg2 Bf1 is stalemate) 2.Rxg2 (2.Kh4 g5+ 3.Kh3 g4+ 4.Kh4 Kf3, and Black will march his king all the way to f2 without losing the g4 pawn.) 2...Kf3 (2...Bxg2+ 3.Kxg2 Kg4 4.h3+ is a draw.) 3.Kh4 Kxg2 4.Kg5 Bd3 5.h4, and soon Black won't have a pawn left to promote.

    Ah ok, maybe one more line:

    1.Kxg2 Be4+ 2.Kg1Ba8 3.h4 (3.h3 Bxh1 4.Kxh1Kg3 and Black wins.) 3...Bxh1 4.h5 gxh5 5.Kxh1, and the king can't be chased out of the corner. It was the rook's pawn hint which got me there

     

    Thanks for posting this interesting problem!

    I would be happy if you gave me a feedback if the solution is correct.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #6

    TonightOnly

    Torkil wrote:

    I would be happy if you gave me a feedback if the solution is correct.


    The second line is the 'solution,' but I think you still need to find what is wrong with your first, first move to fully appreciate the puzzle. Nice work

    BTW, Is there really any point to posting the solution? If you are unsure with your lines, you could always just message me.

    ~TO

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #7

    cena_warrior

    TonightOnly wrote:
    P_U_N wrote:

    and I'm guessing that principal is how to properly create a puzzle.


    I have found the draw and played through all the lines, and it checks out. I guarantee that it is your analysis that is faulty and not the puzzle.

     

    If you think the puzzle is flawed, why don't you give me your line? It's Benko for crying out loud. Wouldn't you just trust that it is correct?

    ~TO


     i think what he meant by saying the puzzle is not correct or flawed is not that the answer or the position of the pieces is incorrect.. instead he meant that your puzzle is faulty in that we can't move the pieces to try to solve it in your post above.. and that there isn't a move list showing the correct moves..

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #8

    TonightOnly

    Fidel_Dolan wrote:

    Hey, did you find this from Benko, or Silman's Complete Endgame Course? Also instantly solved it when I first found it


    Wow, you're right, it is in that book, although a little different. This version was listed in a book my friend brought to club and simply had the diagram and a credit to Pal Benko. In Silman's book, he says it is a variation from a Benko composition. If Silman is right, I wonder what the original composition was. I do own this book and I probably posted the hint in the OP because I remembered that is what Silman was quizzing us on.

    PS, What do you mean you solved it instantly? Do you understand that you are actually suposed to find the draw?

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #9

    cena_warrior

    TonightOnly wrote:

     


    BTW, Is there really any point to posting the solution? If you are unsure with your lines, you could always just message me.

    ~TO


     of course there is a point.. it's easier for people to get the solution here rather than through messages.. especially those who want to get a few member points.. :D and sometimes it's just faster here than through messages for ppl who have different time zones from you..

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #10

    TonightOnly

    cena_warrior wrote:
    TonightOnly wrote:
    P_U_N wrote:

    and I'm guessing that principal is how to properly create a puzzle.


    It's Benko for crying out loud. Wouldn't you just trust that it is correct?


    i think what he meant by saying the puzzle is not correct is that we can't move the pieces to try to solve it in your post above.


    Maybe you're right. That doesn't sound like what he is saying since he said "create a puzzle" and not "post a puzzle." Maybe he will come back and let us know.

    Either way, this isn't the type of puzzle you can post in that way since the point is to play through all the different variations and find the draw against all of black's options.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #11

    Torkil

    TonightOnly wrote:

    The second line is the 'solution,' but I think you still need to find what is wrong with your first, first move to fully appreciate the puzzle. Nice work

    Righteo,

    it's not always about promoting :)

    1.Rg1 Bf5+ 2.Kh4 Bg4 with g5# to follow. Very nice.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #12

    Torkil

    Apart from the possibility to discuss solutions with other solvers, I somehow like to give the solution openly - as proof I solved so to speak. There are so many people calling puzzles easy but we never know if they really solved them at all, or if they were really aware of all variations (my first attempt is a good example).

    Therefore I prefer your way of posting it, too, so the only way to find out if one's solution is correct is to walk out on a limb and make statement waiting for feedback. Apart from using an engine or looking up the puzzle, of course...

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #13

    TonightOnly

    cena_warrior wrote:
    TonightOnly wrote:

    BTW, Is there really any point to posting the solution? If you are unsure with your lines, you could always just message me.


    it's easier for people to get the solution here rather than through messages.. and sometimes it's just faster here than through messages


    Why would you want to 'get' the solution? All the pleasure is from trying to find the solution. If you mean it is quicker to 'check' the solution, he already got most of it and could continue to work at it. I don't have any 'magic key.' I got the solution by working to it and anyone else could do the same.

    Maybe communication would be slower in some situations, but I don't think it is worth it if it is going to ruin the puzzle for someone.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #14

    TonightOnly

    Torkil wrote:
    TonightOnly wrote:

    I think you still need to find what is wrong with your first, first move to fully appreciate the puzzle. Nice work

    1.Rg1 Bf5+ 2.Kh4 Bg4 with g5# to follow. Very nice.


    Ah, well, no actually. White wins here.

    1.Rg1 Bf5+ 2.Kxg2

    You may be closer, though.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #15

    MetalK

    you are assuming after Rg1 the best response is Bf5+, but in reality  Kf3 is the better response, with the idea of Kf2 and g1 to follow

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #16

    cena_warrior

    TonightOnly wrote:
    cena_warrior wrote:
    TonightOnly wrote:
    P_U_N wrote:

    and I'm guessing that principal is how to properly create a puzzle.


    I have found the draw and played through all the lines, and it checks out. I guarantee that it is your analysis that is faulty and not the puzzle.

     

    If you think the puzzle is flawed, why don't you give me your line? It's Benko for crying out loud. Wouldn't you just trust that it is correct?

    ~TO


    i think what he meant by saying the puzzle is not correct or flawed is not that the answer or the position of the pieces is incorrect.. instead he meant that your puzzle is faulty in that we can't move the pieces to try to solve it in your post above.. and that there isn't a move list showing the correct moves..


    Maybe you're right. That doesn't sound like what he is saying since he said "create a puzzle" and not "post a puzzle." Maybe he will come back and let us know.

    Either way, this isn't the type of puzzle you can post in that way since the point is to play through all the different variations and find the draw against all of black's options.


     hmm maybe you're right.. but is there a way you can post the chess board where we can move the pieces and try to toy around with it?? the way it is, we have to get a chess board to really try it out..

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #17

    AZMatt

    TonightOnly wrote:
    Torkil wrote:
    TonightOnly wrote:

    The second line is the 'solution,' but I think you still need to find what is wrong with your first, first move to fully appreciate the puzzle. Nice work

    Righteo,

    it's not always about promoting :)

    1.Rg1 Bf5+ 2.Kh4 Bg4 with g5# to follow. Very nice.


    Ah, well, no actually. White wins here.

    1.Rg1 Bf5+  2.Kxg2

    You may be closer, though.


    That's still a draw.  Black plays 2... Be4+ and we're back to where we started.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #18

    P_U_N

    Yes, what I was saying was correctly post a puzzle - Kxp leads to a draw - and some variations...

     

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #19

    TonightOnly

    P_U_N wrote:

    Yes, what I was saying was correctly post a puzzle


    Well, in my mind, there is no point in posting a puzzle like this. I would rather just post it as a diagram and let chess.com'ers have fun finding the draw in all the variations.

  • 6 years ago · Quote · #20

    TonightOnly

    P_U_N wrote:

    Kxp leads to a draw - and some variations...


    The solution you have posted is incorrect. Also, the variations you gave are unimportant ones.

    I think you should keep working at it. There is a lot more to this puzzle.


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