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IncrediBill vs zrylam (with kibitzers)


  • 19 months ago · Quote · #141

    ScarredEyes

    @Incredibill

    I have no problem with 25.Rfe1 since that's both natural, and good move I think - something I'd think instinctively, I guess. I agree with your evaluation of the previous move - now Black has to defend with pieces, not pawns, by playing f5.

    @kid_of_chess

    Forget what I said in the analysis about an actual refutation - there doesnt seem to be any, but OTB Black can set some practical problems. Since I see it as a forced win or a loss of a Bishop for nothing, I would then rather suggest for Black along the blue line, 3.Bxb4 e4?! which opens the diagonal, but stalls the opening of the e-pawn.

    Wherever we look at it though...I think Black really made a mistake with f5. I've played enough fianchettoes to see that the pawn formation has lost it strength...

    Here's the analysis with your suggested line. Rfe1 is a flexible, latent move...who knows, it may be too passive to take advantage of the weak e5 pawn.

     AND just in case it doesnt show up when I press "Submit your comment>>" I'll post PGN too.

    [Date "????.??.??"]
    [Result "*"]
    [FEN "4q2k/3r2bp/3Pr1p1/1p2pp2/1B3P2/8/P2Q1P1P/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1"]
    [White "Incredibill"]
    [Black "zrylam"]
    [Site "Chess.com"]
    [Event "Some random game"]

    1.Kg2 { Just triangulating - I set up the board wrong. } 1...Qf8 2.Kf1 Kg8 3.Kg1 Kh8 4.Qd5 { I moved around to set the board up right. However, as I said, note that the line this came from has already been refuted. } 4...Qf6 { This is principally not good - not only you highlight the weakness caused by the f6-f5 move, but you block the crucial defender - the bishop at g7. Aesthetically not pleasing. } ( 4...Qe8! { This is better IMO - it lines up the Q+R, protects the R, and adds a defender to the e pawn. } 5.fxe5 { And now this is not so good anymore for white because of } 5...Rxe5 { White exchange also works. } ( 5...Bxe5?! { I think this is the right capture, wrong piece, } 6.f4!! { Wins } 6...Bd4+ { Black must do this move to minimise damage. } ( 6...Bg7?? 7.Rxe6 ) 7.Qxd4+ { White's a piece up - Exchange!!! } 7...Kg8 ) 6.Bc3 ( 6.Rxe5 Bxe5 ( 6...Qxe5?? 7.Qa8+ { Same problem as before - checkmate. } ) 7.Re1!! Bxh2+ 8.Kxh2 ) 6...Rxe1+ 7.Rxe1 Qf8 ) 5.fxe5 Rxe5 6.Rxe5 Qxe5 ( 6...Qg5+!! {A practical defense against your line - you forgot this zwischenzug. Boom. } 7.Kf1 Bxe5 8.Qxe5+ Kg8?? ( 8...Rg7 9.Qe8+ Rg8 10.Bc3+ Qf6 11.Bxf6# ) 9.Qe6+!! ) 7.Qa8+
    *

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #142

    ScarredEyes

    Oh and @Incredibill, one mroe thing - if Rfe1 then Black can look to play prophylaxis and avoid the whole concept of trapped in corner/king in weak dark squares/pins on and x-rays through the bishop, with Kg8. It's too late for me to start doing calculations, its 2.30am and need to sleep, but I don't know if Black will have the tempo needed to defend against f4. I only suggested f4 immediately to capitalize on dark square weaknesses very early.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #143

    Mainline_Novelty

    o wait guys on f4 i think we missed Bh6

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #144

    stubborn_d0nkey

    Hint: try inserting the board right before pressing the submit comment button. In my experience, sometimes moving the place holder with text (or enters) causes just it to appear, so inserting it last or being careful not to move it should help. Anyways, here is your analysis:

    I'll leave the above for potential laughs, it shows what happens if you dont copy everything correctly :P
     
  • 19 months ago · Quote · #145

    IncrediBill

    I went through all of the lines suggested, and I like the way things are setting up.  Since no one has warned me away from my 25.Rfe1 move, I think I am going to make it.  Mainly to get my Rook out from behind my pawns and pointing his guns down the e-file.  I will still have the option of making the f4 move on a subsequent turn ( depending on what @zrylam does).  For now I think the Rook move improves my position and creates some problems for @zrylam.

    Therefore, my official move is . . . . 25.Rfe1

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #146

    ScarredEyes

    Oh for crying out loud, first the board didn't appear, and now my entire post hasn't?

    "This House believes that Chess.com hates ScarredEyes"

    I'd be a blimin' proponent of that!!!

    Anyway, repeating...

     

    @kid_of_chess

    I didn't see Bh6. However, White still has an advantage after Qb2, pinning the e pawn. I analysed it a lot, and figured it was crushing, until Black plays Bxf4, which is prob the best defense. I found that early, so can't remember it well as I'm typing now, but I'll post the game again...

    and stubborn_d0nkey Thanks for tips on posting, it might just solve my problem...

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #147

    Mainline_Novelty

    Well, ScarredEyes, just for the record, Black definately has at least a draw on 25.f4 Bh6 26.Qb2 Bxf4 27.Be3 Qg5 28.Kh1 Bxh2+ or something

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #148

    stubborn_d0nkey

    I just woke up, so i may be mistaken, but isn't it 28 ...Bxh2 not 28...Bxh2+? Doesnt black lose their queen?

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #149

    ScarredEyes

    Ok...let me see...I still think Bh6 is a good defensive move, but Qg5+ does not look like it.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #150

    stubborn_d0nkey

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #151

    IncrediBill

    I liked your analysis in Post #151 on Page 8 here.  It looks like @zrylam and myself are potentially heading for a Bishop exchange.  It remains to be seen what move he makes.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #152

    zrylam

    I'm not going to overthink and talk myself out of this move, I'm just going to roll with it:

    25. ...Qh4

    On a side note, I'm out to play some retardedly difficult competition in the final round of an online Tournament, so forgive me if I'm brief or late to reply.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #153

    IncrediBill

    zrylam wrote:

    I'm not going to overthink and talk myself out of this move, I'm just going to roll with it:

    25. ...Qh4

     

    On a side note, I'm out to play some retardedly difficult competition in the final round of an online Tournament, so forgive me if I'm brief or late to reply.


     Take your time.  No Rush.  Good Luck in your Tournament.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #154

    IncrediBill

    Well I am at a bit of a loss to try and decide how to proceed, or where to launch an attack.  It seems that the ball is in my court to see what direction to take the game in.

    I feel that with his Qh4 move, he is setting things up to advance his e-pawn to the e4 square.  I feel that I should probably maneuver my Queen into a postition to also cover that e4 square. 

    The best place I feel this could be done would be to play 26.Qxb4.  I would recapture my lost pawn and even things up, and I would still be protecting the d6-pawn, while at the same time unblocking my d1-Rook.  I would also continue to protect the e4 square.

    The 26. Qxb4 move also threatens his Queen on the h4 square.  He is either forced to move his Queen to safety, or exchange with mine.  I feel that whichever option he chooses it works out in my favour. 

    If he moves his Queen to safety, then he has just wasted a turn moving it to the h4 square in the first place.  If he exchanges Queens with me, then we take a big step toward the end game, and I feel that I am set up better 'postionally' than he is.

    So if there is another line of attack that I could go with, I would love to hear it.  Otherwise, can I get a thumbs up for the 26.Qxb4 move???

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #155

    IncrediBill

    I've explored a couple of different options and I can't seem to find any other good lines of attack.  So, as I explained in Post #155, I am going to recapture my pawn back and even the game up, and force @zrylam to decide which direction to take the game in.

    So my official move is . . . . 26.Qxb4

     
  • 19 months ago · Quote · #156

    zrylam

    Found some time to study my position and after a few positional errors I believe the best path is to keep making threats.

    26 ...Qh3

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #157

    corpsporc

    27. f4!!!!

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #158

    IncrediBill

    corpsporc wrote:

    27. f4!!!!


     On the surface 27.f4 seems like a good move, because if he captures it with his pawn, then I can recapture it with my Queen.  However, instead of capturing my pawn, @zrylam could play 27...e4 and line up all of his pawns in a very strong diagonal.  Even worse than that he could respond with 27...Qg4+, forcing me to move my King and then he could capture my pawn and go up a piece.

    I'm afraid that unless I am missing something (and there is some sort of alternate plan), 27.f4 is not the move to make.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #159

    IncrediBill

    I think I have a choice between two possible moves. 

    I could play 27.Re3 and then prepare to make the f4 move and attack his Queen.  Of, course @zrylam could respond with f4 before I do, and then I could move my rook to the d-file, and then so on, and so on, and so on. 

    My other alternative would be to play 27.a4 and attack his b5-pawn,  He would not be able to capture my a4-pawn because he would lose his b8-Rook.  It would cause some problems for @zrylam because he would be forced to protect his pawn and tie up his resources that might be best used elsewhere.

    Between the two options, I prefer 27.a4.  Unless someone can come up with support for the 27.Re3 move, or an alternate move all together, then that is the one that I will go with.  I will make my official move tomorrow.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #160

    John_D

    My suggestion would be Qb3, then we protect the pawn and our queen is still protected when we need to exchanges pawns.


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