A game I should not have won

12 months ago · Quote · #21
options-exist

yaukungmun wrote:

I don't think f3 was necessary either in that position. but I think a lot of beginners play that move automatically whenever their opponents play sicilian-like things to forever stop any knight g4s (with the intention of snapping off whites dark squared bishop so black's is unopposed) and it's also a move that is played to set up yugoslav attack-like formations, which again I sense a lot of beginners try to copy and I'm pretty sure thats what this person was trying to do here.

also it must be true what IM pfren says about move 4. if you check the database, there are literally 55,000 more games with Nf6 in that position. I don't pretend to know the reason why Nc6 is seemingly so dubious, but I'm sure it's something judging from numbers.

Ok I have no idea what triggered this storm in a teacup. Perhaps I am clueless or *insert derogatory term that suits your mind here*

Suffice to say I'm still learning and may not have the millions of chess ideas stored in an IM's head. I take the point that I'm not as brilliant as you chesswise (not that I ever tried to claim the contrary...)

Since you say my first wrong move was from move 4, could you kindly explain why 4.. Nf6 would be better instead of sniping?
12 months ago · Quote · #22
OldHastonian

If you post a game in the "Game Analysis" forum, you won't get many compliments on your play!

There will also be 'exaggeration to make a point', but overall, the expertise available and useful contributions make it a worthwhile exercise.
12 months ago · Quote · #23
transpo

[COMMENT DELETED]
12 months ago · Quote · #24
transpo

options-exist wrote:

Hi,

I have always liked the Sicilian Defence but never really seem to play aggressively enough (See the position after move 10). Throughout the game I had a worse position throughout and would probably have lost if not for the fact my opponent overlooked a mate.

What should I have done differently? In particular, is there something wrong with my opening style?

options-exist,

The correct move sequence for the Sicilian Najdorf which is what variation you are trying to play ais as follows: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6

If you would like to try the Sicilian Najdorf here is a summary of what you will find in most Sicilian Najdorf books.

Achilleskim1201 wrote:

What are some good books on the Sicilian Najdorf variation?

Beachdude67 wrote:

I remember owning one by John Nunn a few years back. It was very rich in variations but if you are just starting out with the Najdorf it can be intimidating. For class players there is actually a book called "Starting Out with the Sicilian" by Everyman Press that covers a number of variations of the Sicilian and explains the ideas behind the variations. Id suggest that book - I used some of the suggestions in an online game a few months back and succeeded brilliantly out of the opening.

"shepi13 wrote:

I also have a najdorf book by Nunn. Extremely complex, and it only covers the 6. Bg5 lines. Nevertheless it is a rather good book, although it does take a while to get through.

____________________________________________________________________

The first book referred to by Beachdude67 is titled "The Complete Najdorf: Modern Lines", by John Nunn and Joe Gallagher. The companion book referred to by shepi13 is, "The Complete Najdorf: 6.Bg5", by John Nunn. The 3rd book referred to by Beachdud67 is, "Starting Out: Sicilian Najdorf", by Richard Palliser. There are other books on the Scheveningen and the Najdorf/Scheveningen. I own about 15 books on the Siciliaan Najdorf, the Scheveningen, and the Najdorf/Scheveningen. If you would like to know all the titles and authors please let me know.

All of these posts indicate that they are excellent books but extremely complicated. I would agree with them, if they were right.

What you need to begin with is the right perspectve. What I mean by that is that you first have to be aware that there are 2 opening theories of chess:

1. Classical Chess Opening Theory: Control the center by occupying it with your pawns and pieces.

2. Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory: Control the center by using the power of your pawns and pieces to control the center. With this method you do not create targets in the center for your opponent to attack.

Just to be clear the central squares (the center) are 4 (e4, d4, e5, d5.)

The Sicilian Najdorf is an opening that features a battle for the control of the center, with White employing the Classical Chess Opening Theory, and Black employing the Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory. It is very simple to see this within the first 6 moves of the game, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6. From this point forward until the end of the paragraph we will writing about control of the central squares and some squares that are adjacent to the central squares.  Notice that White is occupying central squares, d4 with his N and e4 with his Kp. By contrast Black has no pawns or pieces on the central squares. However, Black has pawns at d6(controls e5 and c5) togehter with the N at f6 that adds additional control to d5 and fights for control of e4, also the B at f8 adds additional control at the square c5; e6 (controls d5 and f5),a N at f6 (controls d5 and e4), B at c8 [controls f5 together with pawn at e6 (pawn and B aim at f5.]   Black is controlling central squares, but what is different is that he is controlling the central squares with the power of his pawns and pieces. His pawns and pieces are not targets on the central squares for White to attack. In order to attack Black's pawns and pieces White has to go after them he has to attack on the squares that they are on. In other words, White has to divert his pawns and pieces attention away from the central squares and onto squares that are peripheral to the central squares. In addition White has tactical shots that are potential at key squares that every Black player knows about. The squares where White has a chance to do tactical shots only if Black allows it are e6, d5, e5, f5 and f7. The tactical shots are well known because thousands of games have been played at the IM and GM level with examples of these tactical shots. Also, books on the Sicilian Najdorf point out these tactical possibilities and the squares that they occur on.

The most important aspect of the Sicilian Najdorf position after move 6 is the fact that Black has a 2 vs. 1 pawn advantage on the d and e files, in the center. This is a static advanage that will endure in to the endgame. It is and advantage that gives Black a winning endgame. In addition in combination with the pawn at f7, the pawns at d6, e6, and f7 form what is called a "small but secure center."   It will withstand just about any onslaught that White can throw at it. And, that is true whether Black castles Kingside or not. In other words, in many variations the Black King is jus as safe in the center as he would be if he castled Kingside.

The second important aspect of the Sicilian Najdorf position is the square d5. It is thematic for the Najdorf. White struggling and using the advantage of his half-open d file to secure the placement of his N at c3 on d5. Black struggling to prevent the placement of any piece on d5. A compromise is sometimes White can place a pawn at d5. That is ok with Black. The most important trump card that Black has in that struggle for the d5 square is his half-open c file. It is a tremendous weapon in order to thwart White's attempts at placing his N at d5. Another thematic aspect of this opening is Black's move d5. It is the signal pawn break for Black. When the move d5 is made, Black has determined that it is the right time to liberate his game and take complete control of the center.  Another important trump card is Black being able to post his N at b8 on c5 that in conjunction with the Black's half-open c file.

Your move 4...Nc6 is the Open Sicilian Variation. Believe me if White knows what he is doing, he will not play Nxc6 unless it is advanageous to him.   The N at b8 should remain on that square until White has made some commital moves. One of the those commital moves is Bg5, then in most cases the N's best square is d7 (Nbd7.) There are some dangers of a tactical shot by White at e6, but only when his light squared B is at c4 or b3

The answer to your first question is above. The answer to your second question regarding something being wrong with your opening style is: No, here is nothing wrong. You just need to be aware that you are playing Black Hypermodern style.

                            INCOMPLETE WILL BE EDITED
12 months ago · Quote · #25
options-exist

ummmmm.....I don't really know what to say being that I do not understand why you responded in this manner to what I wrote. did you read what I wrote? just skimmed it?

IM pfren also responded to what I wrote explaining what you are asking me.

sincerely yours,

perplexed in ecuador

Hi sorry I'm wasnt referring to you. I was more of using your comment to push this topic back to a more constructive angle rather than sniping (yes . I was actually referring to comments like (apologies I dont know how to quote properly)

IM pfren wrote:

....Almost a textbook example on how NOT to play the opening- factly, white made few mistakes as well, but black's first questionable move comes as early as move four.

Where you went wrong? Huh, sufiice to say that you played the Sicilian (to be fashionable) without having any grasp to the basic ideas of the opening. Not to be repeated.

Im not looking for compliments (I already freely admitted that my opening was screwed). But I do appreciate that you at least give me actual details to work on. Not just tell me things that I already know (Indeed I already asked if my opening style was off in the original post!)

And as for the bit about me playing the Sicilian because you think I think I find it fashionable (see how wrong that sounds?), I hate to burst your bubble but that isnt true. I'm not blindly following some book, indeed I already drifted off book by move 4 (why THAT is such a bad move still remains unanswered by you btw).

I don't know about you, but to me, chess is a place for me to learn and have fun with friends. Not to show off your knowledge without any constructive feedback. Without feedback, comments like that degenerate into pure sniping.

PS : Not saying that everyone is like that, I thank the rest for the insightful comments you all have given. It has given me areas to work on!
12 months ago · Quote · #26
options-exist

transpo wrote:

options-exist wrote:

Hi,

I have always liked the Sicilian Defence but never really seem to play aggressively enough (See the position after move 10). Throughout the game I had a worse position throughout and would probably have lost if not for the fact my opponent overlooked a mate.

What should I have done differently? In particular, is there something wrong with my opening style?

options-exist,

The correct move sequence for the Sicilian Najdorf which is what variation you are trying to play ais as follows: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6

If you would like to try the Sicilian Najdorf here is a summary of what you will find in most Sicilian Najdorf books.

Achilleskim1201 wrote:

What are some good books on the Sicilian Najdorf variation?

Beachdude67 wrote:

I remember owning one by John Nunn a few years back. It was very rich in variations but if you are just starting out with the Najdorf it can be intimidating. For class players there is actually a book called "Starting Out with the Sicilian" by Everyman Press that covers a number of variations of the Sicilian and explains the ideas behind the variations. Id suggest that book - I used some of the suggestions in an online game a few months back and succeeded brilliantly out of the opening.

"shepi13 wrote:

I also have a najdorf book by Nunn. Extremely complex, and it only covers the 6. Bg5 lines. Nevertheless it is a rather good book, although it does take a while to get through.

____________________________________________________________________

The first book referred to by Beachdude67 is titled "The Complete Najdorf: Modern Lines", by John Nunn and Joe Gallagher. The companion book referred to by shepi13 is, "The Complete Najdorf: 6.Bg5", by John Nunn. The 3rd book referred to by Beachdud67 is, "Starting Out: Sicilian Najdorf", by Richard Palliser. There are other books on the Scheveningen and the Najdorf/Scheveningen. I own about 15 books on the Siciliaan Najdorf, the Scheveningen, and the Najdorf/Scheveningen. If you would like to know all the titles and authors please let me know.

All of these posts indicate that they are excellent books but extremely complicated. I would agree with them, if they were right.

What you need to begin with is the right perspectve. What I mean by that is that you first have to be aware that there are 2 opening theories of chess:

1. Classical Chess Opening Theory: Control the center by occupying it with your pawns and pieces.

2. Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory: Control the center by using the power of your pawns and pieces to control the center. With this method you do not create targets in the center for your opponent to attack.

Just to be clear the central squares (the center) are 4 (e4, d4, e5, d5.)

The Sicilian Najdorf is an opening that features a battle for the control of the center, with White employing the Classical Chess Opening Theory, and Black employing the Hypermodern Chess Opening Theory. It is very simple to see this within the first 6 moves of the game, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e6. From this point forward until the end of the paragraph we will writing about control of the central squares and some squares that are adjacent to the central squares.  Notice that White is occupying central squares, d4 with his N and e4 with his Kp. By contrast Black has no pawns or pieces on the central squares. However, Black has pawns at d6(controls e5 and c5) togehter with the N at f6 that adds additional control to d5 and fights for control of e4, also the B at f8 adds additional control at the square c5; e6 (controls d5 and f5),a N at f6 (controls d5 and e4), B at c8 [controls f5 together with pawn at e6 (pawn and B aim at f5.]   Black is controlling central squares, but what is different is that he is controlling the central squares with the power of his pawns and pieces. His pawns and pieces are not targets on the central squares for White to attack. In order to attack Black's pawns and pieces White has to go after them he has to attack on the squares that they are on. In other words, White has to divert his pawns and pieces attention away from the central squares and onto squares that are peripheral to the central squares. In addition White has tactical shots that are potential at key squares that every Black player knows about. The squares where White has a chance to do tactical shots only if Black allows it are e6, d5, e5, f5 and f7. The tactical shots are well known because thousands of games have been played at the IM and GM level with examples of these tactical shots. Also, books on the Sicilian Najdorf point out these tactical possibilities and the squares that they occur on.

The most important aspect of the Sicilian Najdorf position after move 6 is the fact that Black has a 2 vs. 1 pawn advantage on the d and e files, in the center. This is a static advanage that will endure in to the endgame. It is and advantage that gives Black a winning endgame. In addition in combination with the pawn at f7, the pawns at d6, e6, and f7 form what is called a "small but secure center."   It will withstand just about any onslaught that White can throw at it. And, that is true whether Black castles Kingside or not. In other words, in many variations the Black King is jus as safe in the center as he would be if he castled Kingside.

The second important aspect of the Sicilian Najdorf position is the square d5. It is thematic for the Najdorf. White struggling and using the advantage of his half-open d file to secure the placement of his N at c3 on d5. Black struggling to prevent the placement of any piece on d5. A compromise is sometimes White can place a pawn at d5. That is ok with Black. The most important trump card that Black has in that struggle for the d5 square is his half-open c file. It is a tremendous weapon in order to thwart White's attempts at placing his N at d5. Another thematic aspect of this opening is Black's move d5. It is the signal pawn break for Black. When the move d5 is made, Black has determined that it is the right time to liberate his game and take complete control of the center.  Another important trump card is Black being able to post his N at b8 on c5 that in conjunction with the Black's half-open c file.

Your move 4...Nc6 is the Open Sicilian Variation. Believe me if White knows what he is doing, he will not play Nxc6 unless it is advanageous to him.   The N at b8 should remain on that square until White has made some commital moves. One of the those commital moves is Bg5, then in most cases the N's best square is d7 (Nbd7.) There are some dangers of a tactical shot by White at e6, but only when his light squared B is at c4 or b3

The answer to your first question is above. The answer to your second question regarding something being wrong with your opening style is: No, here is nothing wrong. You just need to be aware that you are playing Black Hypermodern style.

                            INCOMPLETE WILL BE EDITED

Hi transpo,

Thanks for your very insightful comment, I found it very helpful in understanding the themes. Could you then hazard a guess why (if i'm reading it right) the Open Sicilian (4... Nc6) is worse than 4.. Nf6? Both control center squares don't they?

In fact, to my untrained eye, Nf6 might eventually force me to exchange my d pawn for his e pawn (if he chooses to advance the e pawn later on), weakening my ideal setup (from what I read)

Where am I wrong in this?
12 months ago · Quote · #27
IM pfren

Read #16 again (or rather, not again).
12 months ago · Quote · #28
transpo

Hi transpo,

Thanks for your very insightful comment, I found it very helpful in understanding the themes. Could you then hazard a guess why (if i'm reading it right) the Open Sicilian (4... Nc6) is worse than 4.. Nf6? Both control center squares don't they?

In fact, to my untrained eye, Nf6 might eventually force me to exchange my d pawn for his e pawn (if he chooses to advance the e pawn later on), weakening my ideal setup (from what I read)

Where am I wrong in this?

__________________________________________________________________

First, you are not wrong. You just don't have the info. to make a sound decision.

why the Open Sicilian (4... Nc6) is worse than 4.. Nf6?

It is not worse. It is relatively worse. Ever since computers the terms optimal and suboptimal moves have entered chess terminology. 4.Nc6 is a suboptimal move because exactly what phren posted. It allows White to play 5.c4 achieving the Maroczy bind. It cements in place a space advantage for White. As I am sure you know the 3 advantages in chess are (time, space and material.) But, in spite of the space advantage and the bind Black's position is still playable.

Something I didn't write you when I first posted on your topic is that I share information by using the Socratic Method (answer a question with a question) With this method you think for yourself. The ownership of original ideas is very important to us human beings. Even if we discover later that we came up with a really ingenious way to reinvent the wheel.

The details of how to handle the Maroczy Bind/Boleslavsky Wall pawn structuture from both the Black side and the White side is elucidated by Hans Kmoch in his book, "Pawn Power In Chess", on pgs. 142-146. You need to buy or borrow this book. You can get it on Amazon, or Barnes & Noble for about $10. The bonus of Pawn Power is that he tells you the following: Almost all openings result in 6 characteristic pawn structures. He writes further on how to handle those 6 from both sides in insightful detail. That section of the book starts on pg.107 and continues until pg.163

Nf6 might eventually force me to exchange my d pawn for his e pawn (if he chooses to advance the e pawn later on), weakening my ideal setup (from what I read) The answers to this can be found in "Starting Out: Sicilian Najdorf", by Richard Palliser, on pgs. 183 - 232. The material is divided into 2 chapters. Chapter 5 covers 6.Bg5: Black Prevents e5, and chapter 6 covers 6.Bg5: Black allows e5.

There is more if White plays 5.Nxc6 havingto do with blocking your alf-open c-file, isolated pawns at a7, c6 that have to be defended by a piece, and the abscense of the N at b8 to go to Nbd7 in order to play BxNf6 N(d7)xB which defends again the critical thematic d5 square.

I'm tired right now. I'll write more later. In the mean time if you have any question please let me know.
12 months ago · Quote · #29
transpo

top2pr wrote:

@ options-exist You should have titled this thread

A game, I should have lost. But I won & I'm still semi-complaining.
I have played a game in the past 72hr where I lost the win & now its (my Black---K vs White---K+B+p). Where's my parade of tissues ... boo whoo whoo, ...kidding. :-)

Move #42 I know I messed up...

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=54822742

After 22.c5?! your best move would have been Nc6 in order to blockade the advance of the c-pawn. Also, blocks the White B's at g2 diagonal (h1-a8.) And of course you would be more than happy if he would exchange his B for your N. Because in this endgame with pawns on both sides of the board, the B is superior to the N. Unless the N can somehow get to the strong central post at d5. Then the game is a draw. But in this case White can drive the N away from that post with his pawn at e3. But that has the drawback that it blocks B's at g2 diagonal. Complicated huh?

I wanted to share some endgame technique, and this position was ideal for that.

If you would like for me to do some analysis on the game from the opening, please let me know.
12 months ago · Quote · #30
transpo

@yaukungmun

lol. sorry this just struck me as funny. it's true though one tiny tiny tiny thing can sway the balance to either side in an endgame. which is why there pretty much isn't any endgame or serious middlegame play in blitz or bullet.

_____________________________________________________________________

A menos que el jugador de ajedrez tiene un banco de techniquas de fase final pautas de visualizacion memorizadas (endgamame technique visualization pattern memory bank.) Then the correct endgame technique jumps up off the board and smacks you on the forehead in a flash. You can keep tapping that clock like machine gun fire.
12 months ago · Quote · #31
options-exist

pfren wrote:

Read #16 again (or rather, not again).

Well, both transpo and you have mentioned how suboptimal being binded is, but to my uneducated self the latent threat of e5 seems worse. I guess transpo's detailed explanation has helped to clear the air up on this one. Prior to that I viewed 5. c4 as lacking potency..

And to yaukungmun, apologies for the confusion. I take your point about the differing cultural viewpoints here, and probably there is also the element of missing contextual clues online which led me to interpret that comment as rather unkind. I should learn to be more tolerant then.

I think I shall just leave it as that here. Personally, having a flood of people respond to my game 7 months after it all happened leaves me a little woozy. In fact, without my analysis board, I wouldn't even remember why I made some moves!

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