Computer Analysis, makes a mistake ?!

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19th May 2009, 08:46am
#1
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

In this position the computer analysis thinks that e3 is the best move for white, but I have looked at this move and it would lead to the Bishop on f4 getting trapped. I think Na3 is the best move.

19th May 2009, 08:51am
#2
by aansel
Long Island United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 753

I do not see how moving e3 leads to your Bishop being trapped. You may have to exchange it for Black's Knight but that is OK. My computer likes either Nf3 or e3.

A quick look through my files shows 2 games with this position (neither games feature strong players ) with White +1.=1 after 5.e3

19th May 2009, 08:53am
#3
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

That's actually what I meant. Black would take my Bishop with the Knight on f6, but two Bishops are stronger than 2 Knights ! So white comes off worst.

19th May 2009, 09:00am
#4
by aansel
Long Island United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 753

Two Bishops are not always better (or worse) than a B & N. It depends on lots of features in the position. In this case if he took your Bishop on f4 you would have nice control of the "e5" square with your pawns on d4 and f4. Also removing his K-side Knight could make his K a litle less protected. Also it is not easy for him to try and move the Bishop from f4 so he would have to waste valuable tempi to do so.

also the value of Bishops and Knights change as the game goes from opening, to middle game to ending. In general though 2 Bishops are better than 2 Knights but in this case you still have one of your Bishops.

19th May 2009, 09:07am
#5
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

In all of my chess books it says that in almost every position 2 Bishops are more powerful than 2 Knights. In this part of the game his King looks pretty well protected anyway, removing the Knight in exchange for the Bishop doesn't seem the correct move.

Plus the Bishop has a nice Diagonal too the c7 square.

19th May 2009, 09:15am
#6
by aansel
Long Island United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 753

First off--you are B & N vs 2 B's which is much different than 2 Bishops which you quote and I mentioned in my previous post.

He can pretty much force and exchange of Bishop's with Bd6 if he wants. Notice your pawn structure (c3,d4) --your pawns are on dark squares limiting the potential of this Bishop. 

Also how many moves must Black make to try and win the Bishop for Knight--tempi are very important in an opening. Also how do you plan on developing the f1 Bishop? I am quite sure Nf3 or e3 are the best moves but the position is close to equal based on early moves. 

You could have reached the same position by placing your B at f4 immediately not giving Black the extra tempo of h6

19th May 2009, 09:26am
#7
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

Well in one of my hand books it says two Bishops are stronger than 1 Knight and 1 Bishop.

But by the time the end game comes two Bishops would be better than Knight and Bishop.

4 moves for black to win the Bishop; e3, g5, Bg3, Ne4, Be5, Nc6.... I would develop the f1 Bishop a little later into the game with e3 maybe after playing h3 so the Bishop has a square to go to if so.

19th May 2009, 09:32am
#8
by corum
Leeds England
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 350

I do agree with aansel - e3 is a perfectly good move in this position. That black could force an exchange of B for N would not overly concern me because I would hope - as aansel suggests - that white would be able to extract compensation for this. For example, black would have to spend quite a few moves to achieve his plan and may have to commit some of his kingside pawns forward.

I thoroughly recommend Chess for Zebras by Rowson - for a review of this fantastic book by Silman please visit - http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_rowsons_chess_for_zebras.html

In Rowson's book he explains the problem of fixed ideas such as "B is better than N" or "two bishops are better than bishop + knight" and how these ideas prevent players from becoming better.

Steve

19th May 2009, 09:44am
#9
by aansel
Long Island United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 753

Rich--first off after 5. e3 if Blacked played  g5 I would be very happy (if I were White) as pawn weaknesses are very hard to correct and here after only six moves Black is basically depriving himself of castling K-side. After retreating my B to g3 if Black continued Ne4 I would probably play Bd3 further developing and pointing toward the weak squares on Black's K-side. I think White now has a comfortable edge (at least at my level of play)

One great thing about chess is that there are almost no hard fast "rules" that work in every situation.

19th May 2009, 01:37pm
#10
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

But then black would more than likely take the Knight out. He could still do a Queen side castle which in my opinion is better than a King side castle.... My step dad took a look at this position and thinks a3 is the best move amazingly for some reason.

19th May 2009, 01:48pm
#11
by chris1011
new york United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 48

2 bishops are only as strong as the player using them personally i prefer 1 of each but i dont mind it either way and 1 bishop for 1 knight doesnt mean its 2 bishops vs 2 knights and also the same with castling it depends on the situation no one piece or move is greater than any other its all about context

19th May 2009, 01:55pm
#12
by slack
Nebraska United States
Member Since: Apr 2009
Member Points: 1202

The bishop pair might be stronger than knight & bishop in theory, but really, all of that is a bunch of noise. It sounds like you are too concerned with piece value. You have to evaluate every position because the position decides piece value, not some dogmatic rule in a book.

19th May 2009, 01:57pm
#13
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 24131

But not only that I find myself as one, being better with two Bishops than Knight and Bishop !

 

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