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Could I have rescued this game?


  • 5 years ago · Quote · #1

    Tyzer

    Sigh. I just drew a depressing game where I was up by a bishop and two pawns but screwed up with a few silly moves. I was just wondering though, could I have salvaged the win even towards the end? I'm talking about around move 39 or so.

    To summarize the main questions in the comments...

    Move 12: Did I have a way to trap the queen?

    Move 19: Was taking the rook an unsound move?

    Move 22: Did I have a way to keep my queen?

    Move 30: What is the general plan in endgames versus a lone queen? Was I correct in trying to defend all my pieces, or would a more active plan be better?

    Move 39: Was the result already fixed as a draw after this point, or was there some plan that could have rescued the win?

    Move 55: Was there any reasonable plan where I could give up material for counterplay, or was this just helpless flailing? (Okay, to be honest I think the answer to this question is very likely the latter, but well, one can hope).

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, also, in the final position, did I have any chances? I went for a draw by repetition because I couldn't see anything winning, but given that it was a queen+pawn vs two rooks endgame I think there could have been some interesting imbalances to make use of.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #2

    Omgimapencil

    12... Qe7+ 13. Kd1 Bg4+ 14. f3 Bg7 wins the queen.

    19... Qxc2 seemed fine, perhaps even the best move. Everything else gives up the bishop and you'll lose some pawns in the process.

    As for move 22... It was too late to save the queen, 20... Kg6 or Kf8 would've been best, so that the bishop and king can both take part in the king's defense.


    Not too good at endgames, so I'll let someone else handle those.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #3

    sixtyfoursquares

    If I would have played this game; after white move qxc4 on move 27; I would have put the kings side rook behind the  bishop pawn and started to push all the 3 pawns; that would have put a lot of pressure on the White queen in stopping those pawn march!  And white does not have any checks until his king side pawns come to his help; which once moved could have allowed your rooks to coordinate and kill them!

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #4

    Tyzer

    Omgimapencil wrote:

    12... Qe7+ 13. Kd1 Bg4+ 14. f3 Bg7 wins the queen.


    *kicks self* Darn, I missed that. Great combination there, thanks!

    I guess if 13.Kf1 had been played instead Bg4 would still trap the queen, though it's less forceful without the check...I think it still works though.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #5

    Tyzer

    Whoops, I think you were ninja'd by my edit. :P BTW, sixtyfoursquares, that does seem like a pretty good idea...although I wonder whether I'd be able to get any threats going before the white pawns started getting near my king. Hmmm, interesting point to ponder.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #6

    JG27Pyth

    @omgimapencil: 12... Qe7+ 13. Kd1 Bg4+ 14. f3 Bg7 wins the queen. It's a winning line but as far as I can see it doesn't really win the queen (it just wins the exchange)... After 15. Re1 it gets both queens off the board and leaves Black up a full rook -- which is not a full queen, but it is crushing.

    @tyzebug

    It hurts to let the win get away like that, but the silver lining is that you really do learn more from the failures than the successes.

    13... Bxc2?? is an absolutely horrendous move. You are up a full piece, and all else being equal you have a won game. Your position has one problem, which is your king is still in the center of the board and somewhat exposed. You have his Queen VERY awkwardly placed and can work that to create further positional or material concessions -- and this is when you decide to snatch the c pawn -- Giving him a check that guarantees your King remains uncastled? You want to eliminate counterplay, not gift it to him!

    His Queen was miserable and his only "threat" was Re1+, I'd have played 13...Qe7, and he doesn't have a good move on the board. After Qe7 you have Rg8 (threatening Rg6 winning his Queen) and you have 0-0-0 when you need. Your position is crushing. He has to find moves like h4 just to stay in the game.

    19... Rxc2 seems best -- I'm not convinced 20... Kh6 was correct though...

    22. You had to give up the Queen to prevent mate.

    30...Rhg8? -- A dismal move -- defense is absolutely the wrong plan -- you are playing to win, not draw -- and even fighting for draw it's the wrong plan...  In endings with Rooks and Queens piece activity (and the King's exposure to tempo gaining checks) is everything. Indeed a maxim of these kinds of endings is an active rook is worth a pawn!  (Meaning, don't be afraid to sac a pawn if it means saving a rook from passivity) Two rooks and a bishop should be able to bully that lone queen. You can't be a bully in a defensive crouch.

    And as for flailing in the end... you had nothing better than draw and you should have encouraged draw by repetition with Kb7 Kh6 rather than letting his Queen win those pawns of yours before capturing your bishop.

    He did NOT have to accept draw at the end of the game. He could have played on with 72.Kg7 Re2+ 73.Kf3 Ree8 and you've got a very very difficult game ahead.  In response to your *edit* -- the only one with winning chances at the end of this game was White! You escaped with a draw, you didn't concede it!


  • 5 years ago · Quote · #7

    marvellosity

    JG27Pyth wrote:

    It hurts to let the win get away like that, but the silver lining is that you really do learn more from the failures than the successes.


    Not necessarily true... last night I blundered a piece on move 39 in a position that was slightly better for me vs an FM. I learnt nothing other than for that one move I was a total arse.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #8

    RC_Woods

    marvellosity wrote:
    JG27Pyth wrote:

    It hurts to let the win get away like that, but the silver lining is that you really do learn more from the failures than the successes.


    Not necessarily true... last night I blundered a piece on move 39 in a position that was slightly better for me vs an FM. I learnt nothing other than for that one move I was a total arse.


    and why do we fall, master Bruce?

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #9

    Vyomo

    Tyzebug in the first place as black (in my opinion) the four knights game is very passive and unless you're a positional player I would suggest the sicilian as black or the sharp latvian gambit!

    I suggest 13.Qe7

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #10

    chessmaster12344

    I might've played 70...a5

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #11

    Tyzer

    I don't quite get that. 70. ...a5 71.Qxf8+ right?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #12

    chessmaster12344

    I dunno. Let's see tyzer:

    (I hope I am not wrong!)

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #13

    Tyzer

    I uh...don't know what you're saying anymore. First you recommend h4 (I presume that's what you meant, I lost track of the board's direction too) which loses immediately, and now you're recommending Rfe8?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #14

    chessmaster12344

    yeah. I am. what's so wrong with multiple ideas?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #15

    Tyzer

    Nothing wrong, I was just a little confused because you suddenly showed a new variation without comment.


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