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How is this game drawn by repetition?


  • 4 years ago · Quote · #1

    K-Lite

    http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=44478141

    I was under the impression that for a game to be drawn by repetition that it had the be three moves in a row that it had to be three moves that are exactly the same. Could someone please clarify for me

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #2

    knightyou

    My understanding is that it is the same position that must be repeated three times not the same moves.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #3

    omnipaul

    No, what is required is:

    1.) The same position, not moves, occurs or is about to occur 3 times.  For a position to be the same, you need all pieces in the same squares with the same player to move, and with the same temporary options available or not available (i.e., castling or en passant).  The specific moves that led to the position don't matter, unless they break the castling or en passant options.

    2.) A player to claim the draw.  It is not automatically given.

    Both of these conditions are often misunderstood, so don't worry about it too much.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #4

    knightyou

    yes. also just for clarity I would add that the three same positions need not be consecutive.  I mean there can be several moves in between the three identical positions.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #5

    Cystem_Phailure

    And perhaps a further clarification, the option to claim the draw only exists while the repeated position is current.  If another move is made so the position is now one that has not previously appeared twice, the option to claim the draw expires.  It can arise again (for just one move, again) if the same position is later reached a 4th time or some other position is reached for a 3rd time.

    EDIT:  omnipaul's mention that the draw claim can also be made "if the position is about to occur" refers to OTB games, where a player can write down on his pad his intended move which would satisfy the criterion, then call the TD over and show his intention to make the move and claim the draw.  That way the opponent can't slap out a quick move to invalidate the draw condition.  But for online chess, obviously if you're the one making the move that meets the position for the 3rd time there's no way to announce your intention.  You have to make the move first, and then click the button to claim the draw before your opponent has a chance to move in reply.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #6

    K-Lite

    thanks. i have a better understanding of the ruling now.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #7

    RegicidalManiac

    I was once "fooled" and my opponent really did not know either. The same position occured but with different rooks occupying the same squares. Neither one of us were expecting the claim draw option to appear. Food for thought for an OTB game where there is no claim draw sign that pops up. The same type of scenario could happen with knights as well.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #8

    royalbishop

    Let me copy and paste the reference here:

    .

    Draws

    Occasionally chess games do not end with a winner, but with a draw. There are 5 reasons why a chess game may end in a draw:

    • The position reaches a stalemate where it is one player’s turn to move, but his king is NOT in check and yet he does not have another legal move
    • The players may simply agree to a draw and stop playing
    • There are not enough pieces on the board to force a checkmate (example: a king and a bishop vs. a king)
    • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)
    • Fifty consecutive moves have been played where neither player has moved a pawn or captured a piece.
  • 23 months ago · Quote · #9

    waffllemaster

    Look at the game with:

    White to move after 26...Ne7
    White to move after 28...Rg8
    White to move after 30...Ne7

    The same position appears 3 times so it's a draw.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #10

    rookendings

    after black moves on turn 26 28 and 30 the position is all the same

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #11

    royalbishop

    waffllemaster wrote:

    Look at the game with:

    White to move after 26...Ne7
    White to move after 28...Rg8
    White to move after 30...Ne7

    The same position appears 3 times so it's a draw.

    • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)
  • 23 months ago · Quote · #12

    waffllemaster

    royalbishop wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    Look at the game with:

    White to move after 26...Ne7
    White to move after 28...Rg8
    White to move after 30...Ne7

    The same position appears 3 times so it's a draw.

    A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)

    I didn't bother reading the comments, I just looked to see if anyone told him which moves were the repetitions.  No one did, so I looked for them.

    I see now he just wanted to know what the rule was.  In that case:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=3+fold+repetition+draw+chess

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #13

    ivandh

    RegicidalManiac wrote:

    ...Food for thought for an OTB game where there is no claim draw sign that pops up.

    This must not have been in Live chess which is meant to simulate as best as possible OTB tournament play; "online" chess is seen as equivalent to correspondence, where some of the rules are relaxed.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #14

    royalbishop

    ivandh wrote:
    RegicidalManiac wrote:

    ...Food for thought for an OTB game where there is no claim draw sign that pops up.

    This must not have been in Live chess which is meant to simulate as best as possible OTB tournament play; "online" chess is seen as equivalent to correspondence, where some of the rules are relaxed.

    ???? These rules need to be universal and clearly upfront.

    New rule a player calls draw situation and then and only then the 50 move rule is activated. And both sides get see it online and not just find out by surprise. I keep find out new conditions for this like a player claims it and it the repeat moves stuff. And recently looks like they have bug to work out using this rule.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #15

    royalbishop

    If they can have a

    Your comment has been added.

    showing at the top of the screen then do the same for when a draw situation is in play. We used to countdown the moves to a draw that is both side to make sure nobody cheated or counted wrong.

    A person claim a draw now if it repeats 3 times. Now that has to go as it is either a draw or not a draw. Like a guy getting knocked out and the guy that knocked him out can claim it as a TKO or not claim it.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #16

    waffllemaster

    royalbishop wrote:
    ivandh wrote:
    RegicidalManiac wrote:

    ...Food for thought for an OTB game where there is no claim draw sign that pops up.

    This must not have been in Live chess which is meant to simulate as best as possible OTB tournament play; "online" chess is seen as equivalent to correspondence, where some of the rules are relaxed.

    ???? These rules need to be universal and clearly upfront.

    New rule a player calls draw situation and then and only then the 50 move rule is activated. And both sides get see it online and not just find out by surprise. I keep find out new conditions for this like a player claims it and it the repeat moves stuff. And recently looks like they have bug to work out using this rule.

    The rules are available to anyone who cares to read them.  It's the players that start games thinking they know it all (when they don't) that get surprised.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #17

    royalbishop

    Yeah i have to agree as i was lazy about it and have way to many draws than i know i would not have if i looked them up. But they can put a banner about your comment and match between Masters being played. Do the same for situations where a 50 move mate is in progresss and draw by repetition.

    I always know that the moves had to be consecutive. They have it listed as not being consecutive and i posted them here so everybody can read it.

    Comment #8  ok i will copy paste it again for anybody that might just join

    Draws

    Occasionally chess games do not end with a winner, but with a draw. There are 5 reasons why a chess game may end in a draw:

    • The position reaches a stalemate where it is one player’s turn to move, but his king is NOT in check and yet he does not have another legal move
    • The players may simply agree to a draw and stop playing
    • There are not enough pieces on the board to force a checkmate (example: a king and a bishop vs. a king)
    • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)
    • Fifty consecutive moves have been played where neither player has moved a pawn or captured a piece.
  • 23 months ago · Quote · #18

    Yohan_Saboba

    Right, all that needs to occur is the same position 3 times, not in a row, and not necessarily by the same moves... However, a position is not the same if someone else is to move.

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #19

    royalbishop

    • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)

    Now this really bothers me ... the not 3 times in a row part. How am going to figure this out during a game. Even worse if i find myself needing to move faster as i think my opponent might blunder as they did earlier in the game several times.

    Now i have to slow down and watch out as i have put myself in the same postion twice already. (Now favors my opponent me slowing down). And now that i am here how long is this going to hold for the 3rd positon to apply for a draw. Is that 5, 10 or 20 moves later from the point it already repeated twice. Or worse i was in that postion 1 time and then 5 move later repeated it 2 times now the game ends in a draw.

    Leaving with my mouth hanging!    (.) ^ (?)

    .

  • 23 months ago · Quote · #20

    Abhishek2

    does anyone noticed this was started nearly 2 years ago?


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