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eXecute
I usually play the Italian game, but I noticed in a lot of games, if one of the crazy attacks doesn't happen, then I am stuck in this fully developed position and my opponent is secured and there's no real attack unless my opponent blunders/mistakes.
How do you initiate an attack from this, and what's the main idea and principles here?
This is the only way I know how to attack afterwards. Some don't work at all.
AnthonyCG
Here is one of the biggest things people miss about chess:
You can't attack just because you want to! You attack because the position calls for it! Otherwise unless your opponent ignores you, you may get hit by a swift pawn break in the center. That hurts no matter how good or bad you are at chess.
When you have no attack (which often you won't even after 1.e4 ) go back to the principles.
In this position I think White is supposed to try to play in the center via Nd5, c2-c3 and d3-d4. Center play is better and much more satisfying imo than flank play anyway. Look at some GMs games from this position and you'll be suprised at what the heck they do.
I'm sure someone here knows exactly what to do though.
Fiveofswords
wow this is an especially boring version of the italian game. im suprised that after Qd2 black doesnt take on f3...but its true that the structural weakness is no big deal.
Bxf3 is actually a bad move here. I read that somewhere in a similar game. I'll post if I can find it.
Estragon
First of all recognize that 3...d6 is very passive, which is why you never see it at master levels. Black is apparently aiming for a bad line of Philidor's Defense or the Hungarian Defense, neither of which is all that great in the good lines. But it does not challenge White or advance an active plan of development for Black. It opens a diagonal for the Bc8, but closes up on the Bf8 which had been open. It defends the e5 pawn which is adequately defended for the moment already. In short, a wasted move at best.
4 d4 or 4 Nc3 soon followed by d2-d4 is the better idea. If Black consigns himself to a cramped position voluntarily, White should seek to open things up right away. 4 d3 is just too passive - White's fine, but it is not challenging enough to assert the advantage White should be able to gain after Black's dull play. This is the moment to apply the maximum pressure!
For 1 e4 players, this is a nearly ideal situation: Black has no threats, White is already ahead in development, can play d2-d4 immediately without risk, has at least one better Bishop already, and is prepared to castle. Black's Kingside remains undeveloped, he's behind in development without compensation, and he has cramped his own position.
As a 1 e4 player, this stuff should be your meat and potatoes! Play d2-d4, develop, expand, put your pieces on good squares, use the space advantage to further constrict Black, attack.
TwistedLogic
Sorry i say this, but when i read your post i had to laugh a bit ;) You cannot just attack from every position. Patience is the answer, in your example you just weaken your own kingsafety with g4 ?? When you improve you will notice stronger players always play solid games with no real direct/fixed weaknesses and you need to comeup with a long term plan/idea to continue instead of some cheap/quick attack.
In your case you can plan for example to(without calculating anything just ideas) go for more space by pushing b4 or come up with a plan to push d4 or f4 as a break move. Preparing f4 might be a good idea because your Bishop is on c4 pressing f7 so he cannot play f5 as counter directly.
Ofcourse direct b4 and f4 are not good/possible so you need to make a plan to continue. For example first a3 or Rb1 or Nh2(preparing f4). Just look into a game for ideas/theme's what you want to play and from there you think how you can make this a reality.
AtahanT
Short answer: You need to look at pawn breaks. Those open lines and generate play for both sides.
zankfrappa
Yes, in your second diagram you move your g-pawn and h-pawn. Since you areboth castled kingside that is not really a good idea although bold. You can play d4 opening the center or play b4 then b5 to begin a queenside attack. I don't see much kingside. Good luck.
rednblack
I think most everyone who has commented on this thread has it right, namely that you can't pull attacks out of thin air without the position calling for them. I'll only add that when I was taking lessons, my instructor was a positional player who liked a lot of these so-called boring positions, and he always told me that the thing to do was make moves that improve your position when you can't see tactics, or means of attack. He also said that he would often wait for an opponent to implode his or her own position when an easy attack wasn't visible.
You can push the pawns infront of your king if the center is locked or under your firm control. It's viable in many cases. In this case probably not because the center can open.
You're probably better off with more open games until you figure this stuff out. I don't know what this is but it's attackish I guess...
Why should you attack always?
Because it's fun?
Interesting ideas. I especially liked fiveofswords ideas and variations.(plus he made diagram)
I'm guessing you guys thought Nd5 or 12.Bxh6 attack was sort of pointless and premature?
I guess I should be playing more d4. f4 might also be an idea.
Also don't get me wrong, I usually never play g4, when I O-O, I occasionally do because of no visible attack or strategy.
Would the following be an idea for a queenside attack or the center-attack from white's position?
I think black would play an alternate move to 18...Nd8.
odessian
I would often sacrafice a piece to gain initiative.
If you want to attack then don't play 4.d3.
Yes, it's that bad.
DylanAM
Agreed with the previous poster, White's Rook is hanging, Black can just play Rxa4.
Ricardo_Morro
Back to the original position of this thread: you might plan a kingside attack with the wing pawns advancing by first bringing queen knight to e2, then play g4 (if black wants to sacrifice a piece to open your kingside, now you have the knight ready to help the defense, and he will be down in material), then Ng3, then at some point Nf5, either with the knight at g3 or the other knight at f3 via h4, also releasing th f pawn to advance. This is an attacking pattern often used in a very similar position of the Ruy Lopez Orthodox line.
paulgottlieb
If you want to attack, you need to have attacking positions, as everybody else has already said. In the game in your initial diagram, you didn't really do much to bring about the attack you desire. Your opponent's 3...d6 was a very passive move, but your 4.d3 wasn't very dynamic either. DId you consider moves like 4.d4 or 4.Nc3 to be followed by d4? Your opponent is giving you a bit of a free hand in the center, so why not be more aggressive.
Later, on move 8, you might have considered 8.g4 followed by Qd2 and O-O-O. This would have created a more dynamic situation, and your kingside attack looks more advanced than your opponents play on the queenside.
Attacking opportunities usually don't just fall in your lap, you have to create them. If you have the time and inclination, you might want to look at the games of Paul Morphy (perhaps at chessgames.com). You will find many examples of how to create attacking positions in theseopen games.
yeah some of your lines had some fairly clear refutations (the rook hanging was bad heh). Also for example i think my Ng5 line would probably just lose if black played 12...ef instead of grabbing the knight.
Sure, its usually possible to start getting violent from almost any position, even if the position doesnt call for it. In fact it often may be difficult to refute, or not have a clear refutation. But certainly theres always a chance that it backfires and you lose.
I tihnk its usually better, and will give you better results in practical play, to start going into berserker mode rather than play with no plan at all, or playing passively.You can know that its not quite positionally justified, but you simply dont have a better idea.
If you start studying endgames and if you have a deeper uderstanding of openings you will usually be able to find plans that are not so risky and double-edged.
You were also looking at ideas of attacking the center and the queenside. In general if its possible to assault the center then its the more promising thing to do, since if you can take the center of the board your pieces are more ready for anything...they can quickly go wherever they are needed. You played d4, which makes sense, but you ended up playing d4 in 2 moves instead of one...you couldve simply played d4 in 1 move much earlier, its more efficient.
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