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I forced the draw... should i have gone for the win??

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4th August 2008, 11:12am
#1
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

I played this game against a higher rated player, and found myself in a much better position than my opponent.  however, i ended up forcing the draw, because i couldn't find the winning move.  please read my comments in the game, and then take a look at my potential next moves below.  let me know what you think.  thanks. 

 

So my knight on f3 is not involved at all.  but i couldn't find a way to get him into the game.  Nh4 get's nothing done, because of Nh4...g6.  Nd2 allows for Bd7, chasing away my queen.  Trying to stack my rooks allowed for Kf8, which i probably should have allowed to happen.  it blocks in his rook on h8, effectively removing it from the game, but it allows for counterplay once his bishop is no longer pinned.  I decided on the draw, because i just didn't want to be forced into a mistake, and end up losing the game that i've worked to get into a "draw in the worst case" situation.  Do you have any thoughts for me?  thanks

4th August 2008, 11:30am
#2
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

that was it matthias.  i couldn't find it.  thank you. 

I was too busy trying to get another piece into the game.  i had all i needed right there in front of me.  and to think about how long i spent on that move without seeing thatFoot in mouth

4th August 2008, 11:34am
#3
by draco_alpine
London England
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 495

OK

The opening was the Tarrasch defence where black takes on an isolated pawn for development.

6 Nxd5 looks stronger to me but the position you got your self into was immense

I might have grabbed a pawn with

14 Bxc6 Bxc6 15 Bxa7

and in the final positon i couldnt see a win,my best was

rxc6 bxc6 qd7+ but i am not sure what it realy achieves your opponent is to solid

 

Edit:Your in good company i missed the winning line to!? :)

4th August 2008, 11:37am
#4
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

draco_alpine wrote:

and in the final positon i couldnt see a win,my best was

rxc6 bxc6 qd7+ but i am not sure what it realy achieves your opponent is to solid


 I thought about that, but i didn't think it got me anywhere.  Matthais has the winning move, see above.  thanks for your thoughts

4th August 2008, 11:42am
#5
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

i'm amazed at how simple it was, now that i'm looking at it again after a few weeks.  i literally spent hours on that move, and i feel a bit stupid right now...  ah well

4th August 2008, 11:48am
#6
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607

18 Bc5 Black does have 18... Rc7 (19 Bd6 Qc8).  I think I would probably play 18 Rc5 with the idea of Nxe5 (or maybe even Rxe5).  Or you can just consider doubling rooks on the d file with a big plus--Kf8 doesn't offer him much in the way of possibilities, since his e7 bishop can't really go anywhere, even if it's not pinned (18 Rc2 Kf8 19 Rcd2 Bb4 20 Rd8+).

4th August 2008, 11:49am
#7
by yoshtodd
Hawaii United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 195

Well played, but in my opinion way premature to offer draw... His king is stuck in the middle of the board, your rooks are dominating the open files. Black has so few moves available, even if he stops your threat, as in Nh4 g3 (perhaps you could swing your rook d3 f3 if this happened), you still have the freedom and initiative because he's not making any counter threat. The variations mathiassmall offered looked winning to me.

Edit: and tonydal's variations too... i never even considered Rc5 but boy that looks threatening.

4th August 2008, 11:51am
#8
by Evil_Homer
Perth Australia
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1735

I'm waiting for Loomis. Laughing

4th August 2008, 12:01pm
#9
by TheMoonwalker
Norway
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 1230

How about 15. Bc4, then you could check and prevent castling?

4th August 2008, 12:03pm
#10
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

you can get to the analysis board here:

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=8074017

thanks for all the replies.  i knew my position was great, i just spent so much time looking for what to do that i got fed up with myself and i took the draw against a "better" player.  this is very helpful to talk about it with everyone here, i'll try to post more of my games more often

4th August 2008, 12:29pm
#11
by draco_alpine
London England
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 495

Hope this helps!!!

4th August 2008, 12:44pm
#12
by adgab
Berkshire United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 6

Please could someone explain how

1. Bc5 Rc7; 2. Bd6

from Matthias is winning?  What about black moves Qc8?

4th August 2008, 12:49pm
#13
by gigliott2000
New York, New York United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 213

adgab wrote:

Please could someone explain how

1. Bc5 Rc7; 2. Bd6

from Matthias is winning?  What about black moves Qc8?


 tonydal already explained that it is not winning.  it puts you up a rook for a bishop though. 

4th August 2008, 01:00pm
#14
by NoMercyInChess
United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 53

I like Rd5, threatening Nxe5, fxe5, Rxe5.  I don't think there is an adequate defense for Qxe7.

If Bxd5 then Rxc8+

4th August 2008, 01:02pm
#15
by fog
Toronto Canada
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 471

i agree with no mercy

4th August 2008, 01:07pm
#16
by NoMercyInChess
United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 53

draco_alpine wrote:

Hope this helps!!!


draco I think the simple Be8 defends.  If Nd7+, BxN, RxB then Rc1 is winning for black.  Rd5, I think is winning completely, let me know gigliott

4th August 2008, 01:32pm
#17
by LydiaBlonde
Zagreb Croatia
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 596

@draco: you are wrong - in our variation, after 3. Nxe5 black has 3... Be8!

However, in the final possition of the game: 20. Rd5! and then your idea is correct: 20... Kf8 21. Rxe5 fe5 22. Nxe5 Be8 23. Rxc8. However, 20... Rf8 is better. Then white can play 21. b4 with an idea 22. a4, 23. b5. Black is pined, have no good moves.

Before in the game: 14. Bxa7 was possible!

And a move later: 15. Bc4 with a threat 16. Bf7+ Ke7 17. Bc5+ Kd8 18. Bb6 and black lost Q.

4th August 2008, 09:48pm
#18
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607

18 Rc5 Kf8 19 Nxe5 fe 20 Rxe5 seems winning.

4th August 2008, 11:21pm
#19
by adgab
Berkshire United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 6

Thanks Gigliott, it took me a while to check the moves so my post came after Tony's  :-)

5th August 2008, 12:03am
#20
by laozi
United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 12

matthiassmall wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but would playing Bc5 when the black queen is on b8 be winning?

 

1. Bc5 Rc7; 2. Bd6

1. Bc5 Qc7; 2. Bxe7 Qxe7; 3. Qxc8


 what happens after bd6 (first variation).  It is advantageous to get a rook for bishop, but not a win (automatically).  It provides for a lead, but as is mentioned above, the white knight is isolated and a bit useless.

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