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queen "sac"


  • 5 months ago · Quote · #1

    erikido23

     

     

    Accidental queen sac and plenty of material for it.  Do you see any way of making progress for black at move 32?  Any other thoughts on the rest of the game are greatly appreciated as well

     

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #2

    erikido23

    Buehler, buehler anyone?

     

    Not a single thought?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #3

    erikido23

    man, my games really aren't very interesting

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #4

    waffllemaster

    Didn't like 6.e5, but I guess it's book so it can't be that bad.

    9...Nbd7 was weird, and it's here that I liked the e6 Ng5 maneuver... which should be almost winning right away.

    14...f6 is weird again.  e5 is white's "punishment" for playing... for playing e5 Tongue out  Better to play around it and pressure it, not resolve it immediately (that's what white wants).

    15.e6 seems to work just fine (somehow :p ), but taking is what I'd want to do. 

    19.c4 with a double attack.

    22.Qc3  eww, that's an ugly move.

    You asked about 23...Bd5 but that gives up a pawn for no reason so I don't like it.

    24...Raf8  I don't know what the best move is here, but surely black can find something better to aim for than double on the f file :)

    31...Bf8 is worth looking at.  White has the material to win, but there's a lot of work to do.  He can eat your passer with 37.Ra8

    43. Qxe4 wins a pawn.

    45...   don't think you should sac the exchange (although it would be instructive to see white play for a win).  White still has the material to put you away with a ton of maneuvering.  (break though with king, target pawn(s)

    59...Rxf5 Uncomfortable position, can't even get to what looks like a fortress.  White is winning now.

    White didn't understand how to play for a win here with rook vs queen.  Same is true in rook vs knight or bishop... the stronger side plays for zugzwang.  For example 70.Qc7 and if Rg5 then Qe7.

    It's easy for me to sit back and say white "should" have won, I'm not saying I could have done it though.  Too bad no one wanted to comment, odd material trades like this are always interesting.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #5

    erikido23

    Yes, I knew there were lots of mistakes(thats what happens when u play openings u don't play.  But,, that was the point.  I am trying to learn different types of positions.)I will have to go over ur other notes more closely.  But, I think the draw was pretty basic at the end...Maybe I am missing something(I usually am)

     

    19 c4 nxc4?what am I missing?

    I didn't like doubling on the f file.  But, after the exchange of bishops the rook would be pinned and there was uncomfortable pressure(I think I saw a shot if I didn't protect it first.

     

    43. qxe4 loses a rook(bishop CHECK)

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #6

    waffllemaster

    Doh, 19.c4 doesn't win the knight huh :)  But since you asked I see I lucked out and it does after you retreat your bishop the queen wont be able to keep defending it.

    I don't understand what you said about move 43?  (there are no bishops)

    In your diagram, Qc2+ isn't a bad move... but it's not what white is looking for, this is the endgame and you're going for zugzwang.  Look for moves that give black no good moves for himself.  For example Qc4 or Qc8 are good. And the total line shows white cut himself off form the pawns... I mean come on, no way would white go for that :)

    One way to win is to trade pawns (assuming the player knows how to do the Q vs R endgame).

    Here's a useful site:  http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #7

    ViperX88

    6. e5 is actually not book.  The push is too early.  6. Bb5+ is better.  The idea is to deprive the f6 knight of the d7 square.  Black's best is 6. ... Bd7 7. e5 Ng4.

    10. e6 is very strong.  10. ... fxe6 11. Ng5 O-O 12. Nxe6 Qa5 13. Nxf8 cxd4 +-.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #8

    erikido23

    Oh, I somehow thought I could still protect the knight after the bishop moved.  But, I was wrong as usual lol. 

     

    You are right there aren't bishops on board at that time(I had the positions mixed up).  But, qxe4 and I am happy.  WHether or not I am winning losing or drawing I don't know.  But, its complicated defense for white at that point it seems. 

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #9

    erikido23

     

     

    went to that site and could get the pieces set up but couldn't figure out how to just start playing moves(by clicking on pieces-which is much more convenient for me personally.  Especially considering it doesn't always show my patzer moves on the moves list)

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #10

    waffllemaster

    It shows all legal moves on the move list :)

    If you attack the rook over and over, or check over and over, you'll get nowhere.  The idea is to either trade pawns, or (if black lets you) get your king closer and eventually win the f6 pawn. 

    For example in your diagram on move 3

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #11

    erikido23

    waffllemaster wrote:

    It shows all legal moves on the move list :)

    If you attack the rook over and over, or check over and over, you'll get nowhere.  The idea is to either trade pawns, or (if black lets you) get your king closer and eventually win the f6 pawn. 

    For example in your diagram on move 3

     

     

    At the end of your line doesn't r-f5 save the pawn(look closely)


  • 5 months ago · Quote · #12

    AndyClifton

    erikido23 wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    It shows all legal moves on the move list :)

    If you attack the rook over and over, or check over and over, you'll get nowhere.  The idea is to either trade pawns, or (if black lets you) get your king closer and eventually win the f6 pawn. 

    For example in your diagram on move 3

     

     

    At the end of your line doesn't r-f5 save the pawn(look closely)



    That's true.  But like waffle says, just plug it into the Nalimov tablebase and you'll find your answer (and a nice one it is too!).

    The main line given is 5... Rf5+ 6 Kg3 Rf1 7 g5+ Kxg5 8 Qg7+ Kf5 9 Qg4+ Ke5 10 Qe2+.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #13

    erikido23

    AndyClifton wrote:
    erikido23 wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    It shows all legal moves on the move list :)

    If you attack the rook over and over, or check over and over, you'll get nowhere.  The idea is to either trade pawns, or (if black lets you) get your king closer and eventually win the f6 pawn. 

    For example in your diagram on move 3

     

     

    At the end of your line doesn't r-f5 save the pawn(look closely)



    That's true.  But like waffle says, just plug it into the Nalimov tablebase and you'll find your answer (and a nice one it is too!).

    The main line given is 5... Rf5+ 6 Kg3 Rf1 7 g5+ Kxg5 8 Qg7+ Kf5 9 Qg4+ Ke5 10 Qe2+.


     Oh, would u 2 stop trying to confuse me with the simple facts ;p

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #14

    AndyClifton

    He has also confused me by putting an extra "l" in waffle (which I just noticed)...

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #15

    waffllemaster

    Haha, I wondered if anyone would ever notice that (the extra "l") :)

    Nice stalemate save BTW, obviously didn't catch that.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #16

    Samsch

    waffllemaster wrote:

    Haha, I wondered if anyone would ever notice that (the extra "l") :)

    Nice stalemate save BTW, obviously didn't catch that.


    How is it stalemate? Can't he move the rook?

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #17

    waffllemaster

    Samsch wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    Haha, I wondered if anyone would ever notice that (the extra "l") :)

    Nice stalemate save BTW, obviously didn't catch that.


    How is it stalemate? Can't he move the rook?


    Chess puzzle: Save the black pawn!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This is what he was talking about. If white takes the rook then it's a draw, if white steps out of the way, the rook moves down and keeps defending the pawn.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #18

    Samsch

    waffllemaster wrote:
    Samsch wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    Haha, I wondered if anyone would ever notice that (the extra "l") :)

    Nice stalemate save BTW, obviously didn't catch that.


    How is it stalemate? Can't he move the rook?


    Chess puzzle: Save the black pawn!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This is what he was talking about. If white takes the rook then it's a draw, if white steps out of the way, the rook moves down and keeps defending the pawn.


    Oh, ok.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #19

    Eric_Cantona

    Question : If you are going to agree on a draw after sacrificing your Queen, why didnt you just play on WITH your Queen, with a probable chance of him making a blunder and losing his pawn or Rook? If you finally decide you cant win, then only offer a draw.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #20

    waffllemaster

    He was black, he was the one with the rook.


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