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Question on Suggested Move


  • 11 months ago · Quote · #1

    Patrick-66

    Below is a screen shot from my iphone chess app.  The app is suggesting h3 as white's next move and I am wondering about others' thoughts on this move.  I have been reading Logical Chess and this is a move that the author recommends against.  I notice that this move will put black's knight in a position of not having a safe spot to flee to so white will pick up a free knight with that move I believe.  So is the knight worth creating this weakness in the chess wall in front of the king?

    Thanks!

     

     

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #2

    crtexxx

    So the move h3 is not recommended by the author in one situation, and therefore it is automatically bad in all others?

    And creating a "weakness" doesn't mean much at all if the weakness can't be exploited. Here black has only 2 pieces on the kingside, and only 1 once you take off the knight. How can he use this "weakness"?

    Even if there were 4 or 5 pieces over there, I still would take the knight (unlesss there were some obvious tactics of course). An advantage of a single pawn is winning against an opponent of same level, so think about a whole piece!

    Basically h3 is the best move because it wins a piece, an enormous amount of material and the tiny weakness it created doesn't mean anything at all; black doesn't have an attack anywhere on the board, least of all the kside. If you are interested in free coaching services from me, please visit the thread I started.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #3

    Patrick-66

    Thanks for your reply.  Actually, I understood from the author, Irving Chernev that this move is generally not recommended for inexperienced players.  In fact he quotes several historical figures stating this principle.  However I also understand that general principals are not meant to be followed without exception.  It sounds like in your opinion, this is the right move in this situation and the potential "weakness" that is created is worth the benefits.  Thanks again.  I am just learning so appreciate your patience.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #4

    Remellion

    In general, significant material > everything. "Significant" being at least an exchange (2 points) up. Another general principle (P=1, N=B=3, R=5, Q=9) that can be wrong at times, but is usually right. Most games are decided by material at your stage, and even top grandmasters play to convert a pawn up to victory sometimes (again, not always.)

    The only times being up material is bad is if your opponent can get even more material back from you shortly (a sacrifice to win material) or if you get mated. Abstract things like positional compensation for the exchange are too vague to discuss at this stage.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #5

    crtexxx

    The author is assuming that you understand that material is of great important. An isolated pawn (or some positional weakness) may lose you an evaluation of (I don't want to be "computery" here, but to show the point...) -.2 in your position, while losing a knight for a pawn is -2.2 (in middlegames pieces are worht more than their avg). That's an 11* difference! So you need 11 of those weaknesses to compensate for that piece! Well, there are only 8 pawns to start with...

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #6

    baddogno

    I love Chernev's Logical Chess too but sometimes he overstates his case in order to hammer home a point for beginners.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #7

    tigbench

    Bb4X Nc3 beware...

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #8

    hqfull_23

    Do play h3 but not hxg4?? after he plays h5!!

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #9

    Remellion

    Eh, what hqfull_23? After h3 h5?, hxg4 hxg4, Nh2 and white is totally safe. Just take the hanging knight!

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #10

    baddogno

    @hqfull_23

    The difference between this and the "fishing pole trap" is that black has already castled and doesn't have a rook to ram down the h file.  I'm sure you've already figured that out though. Wink 

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #11

    Mainline_Novelty

    The forums have brought me to the point where I automatically assume the OP of posts like this are trolls.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #12

    crtexxx

    Maybe he is, on second though. The tone in the first post could be seen as a bit sarcastic.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #13

    Patrick-66

    Mainline_Novelty wrote:

    The forums have brought me to the point where I automatically assume the OP of posts like this are trolls.

    Are you suggesting I am "trolling"?  What gives you that idea?  My question could not have been more sincere.  I am getting back into chess and trying to learn.  I think that is one purpose of these forums.  Any constructive input or thoughts are much appreciated!

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #14

    Mainline_Novelty

    Patrick-66 wrote:
    Mainline_Novelty wrote:

    The forums have brought me to the point where I automatically assume the OP of posts like this are trolls.

    Are you suggesting I am "trolling"?  What gives you that idea?  My question could not have been more sincere.  I am getting back into chess and trying to learn.  I think that is one purpose of these forums.  Any constructive input or thoughts are much appreciated!

    I never said you were, I just said that there are so many trolls here that I assume anyone with a question like this is one.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #15

    Doggy_Style

    Patrick, a free Knight is more than ample compensation for such a small weakness. Black can't demonstrate any initiative with his minor pieces on the wrong side of the board.  White's extra piece will decide the matter, in fairly short order.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #16

    crtexxx

    Yeah, on the master level, after h3, the opponent would resign immediately. Even on the high amateur level it would happen the majority of the time.

    If you can win a piece, and there's nothing killing for the opponent, just do it.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #17

    Doggy_Style

    If you can win a piece, and there's nothing killing for the opponent, just do it.



    Well said.

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #18

    Patrick-66

    Thanks all.  Point well taken and understood!  I will keep this advice in mind in my future games! 

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #19

    chesshole

    of course h3 is creating a weakness

  • 11 months ago · Quote · #20

    crtexxx

    chesshole wrote:

    of course h3 is creating a weakness


    (5): You forgot the sarcasm sign.


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