Would Black Win this endgame (if my opponent didn't time out)

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15th May 2008, 06:54pm
#1
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93

Hey,

    I recently did a blitz game (unfortunately I had to do something quickly, so I don't have the full game), but it was pretty cool.  In the end, I was able to get a queen out of a passed pawn and here was the position when the opponent timed out.  This is a win for black right?



Edit:  The diagram now has the correct coordinates.
15th May 2008, 07:08pm
#2
by P_U_N
Tyler, TX United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 933

yeah, if the white pawn was gone, white could check on e3, which would lead to a stalemate, or a loss for black.

 If white checks d1, the king cannot take the pawn - would result in a check on d3 - another stalemate

So, white might have some tricks up it's sleaves, but if black is careful, this will be a win.

 


15th May 2008, 07:16pm
#3
by unferth
Unferth United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 24
yes, it's a win. Rd1+ is forced, and after Kc4, the pawn falls; with white's king already trapped on the back rank, mate won't take long--but as PUN noted, black has to be wary of 1 Rd1+ Kxc3 2 Rd3, forcing a draw via stalemate.
15th May 2008, 07:18pm
#4
by redhotman
mejor pais del mundo Argentina
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 203
checkmate on Qc2, unless im missing something
15th May 2008, 07:54pm
#5
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
white to move, silly! ;P
15th May 2008, 07:57pm
#6
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
ooops, I made a large error in protraying this:  I corrected it above, but please be wary.
15th May 2008, 11:43pm
#7
by NM tonydal
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 4001
Yes, it looks like a win--but after 1 Rd1+ you should play 1... Ke3; then after 2 Re1+ Kf2 you win the pawn.  However, 1... Kc4 2 Rd4+ Kc5 3 Kd2 is probably a draw.
16th May 2008, 01:55am
#8
by Dmytro
Kiev Ukraine
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 969
On the diagram - where is a1 square? Bottom left or upper right?
16th May 2008, 07:02am
#9
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
bottom left.
16th May 2008, 11:55am
#10
by NM tonydal
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 4001
Oh sorry, the pawn's moving up the board...in that case, it's a draw.
16th May 2008, 12:05pm
#11
by eternal21
New Jersey Poland
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 399
tonydal wrote: Oh sorry, the pawn's moving up the board...in that case, it's a draw.

 huh?  Black wins no matter what.


16th May 2008, 12:12pm
#12
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
tonydal - I thought that might be the case, how would white play it out?
16th May 2008, 12:22pm
#13
by eternal21
New Jersey Poland
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 399
themirrortwin wrote: tonydal - I thought that might be the case, how would white play it out?

 Pull a queen out of his a.., I mean sleeve...


16th May 2008, 12:29pm
#14
by NM tonydal
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 4001
I would say 1 Re8+ Kd6 2 Rd8+ Kc7 3 f7.  Also bearing in mind that a lot of times White can sack the rook even if there's no stalemate because he has a bishop pawn.
16th May 2008, 12:39pm
#15
by eternal21
New Jersey Poland
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 399
tonydal wrote: I would say 1 Re8+ Kd6 2 Rd8+ Kc7 3 f7.  Also bearing in mind that a lot of times White can sack the rook even if there's no stalemate because he has a bishop pawn.

 Wrong.  After the Re8 check, King simply takes the pawn.  Game over.


16th May 2008, 12:49pm
#16
by eternal21
New Jersey Poland
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 399
benws wrote: not exactly...it would probably have been a draw.  eternal21- 1 Re8+ Kxf6 2 Re6!+ kXE6 STALEMATE.

 I end up having to eat my words.  Stalemate indeed.


16th May 2008, 12:51pm
#17
by NM ozzie_c_cobblepot
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 3587

Unless there is a way for white to improve, then it is a win for black as follows.

1: Re8+ Kf5
2: f7 Kf6
3: Re7 Qd3
4: Kg8 Qg3+
5: Kf8 Qb8+
6: Re8 Qc7


16th May 2008, 01:02pm
#18
by thepitbull
Baltimore United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 68
A queen vs rook endgame is a win for a queen, but it's not easy.  After Re8+, Kxf6 and then the "fun" begins.
16th May 2008, 01:14pm
#19
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 4407

ozzie, nice finish. I think After 1.Re8+ Kf5 White's best defense might be 2.Re7!?. The idea is if Qxf6+?? or Kxf6?? it's a draw on the spot. It's a simple trick, but one that often works below the 1500 level and these players were ~1225. 

Queen vs Rook can be a real pain--even at the master level. In this position it helps that the White king and rook are already at the edge of the board. I definitely feel your opponent should have continued playing.


16th May 2008, 01:24pm
#20
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
Interesting, thank you everyone.  I thought black could win here if we played it out.
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