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Win with the Black side of Ruy with 11...Qb8?!

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #1

    BirdBrain

    Guys, I need some help trying to learn the opening ideas for the Ruy from both sides.  I am making a real effort, but getting the right themes (not memorizing lines, but understanding concepts) - I am still working on that.  In this game, I wanted to support my e-pawn, so I played 11...Qb8, but as soon as I played it, it looked bad.  However, he didn't take me up on the challenge to win the pawn.  I did win the game, and the ending wasn't too bad.  I am not saying this was a spectacular win by any means, but I would like some critique on the opening themes please.  I have posted what I was thinking so you can see my thoughts.  I will not put any exclams - last time my exclams were met with question marks by pfren!  :-)

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #2

    devesation

    Overall i think you played it okay. The qb8 was questionable. There was a few moves on both sides that i would have done differently.If you really want to learn the ruy lopez go to www.thechesswebsite.com. They have plenty of free videos on openings.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #3

    erikido23

    Just wanted to mention that 14 n-h5 is a blunder....See if you can find it(you allowed the response for about the next four moves as well)

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #4

    IM pfren

    The stock answer to 9.d4 (AKA the Yates variation) is 9...Bg4, putting pressure on d4. 9...Bb7 makes the plan with ...Re8 and ...Bf8 useless, as white has spared the h2-h3 move and has time to protect the e4 pawn via g3.

    After 11...Qb8? the e5-pawn is free to take, as far as I am concerned. I do not see the slightest compensation for Black.

    You seem to like your position after 13.d5... I wouldn't be so enthusiastic. You have misplaced a queen, a knight and a bishop- which means that against proper play you should already be in serious trouble.

    14...Nh5? drops a pawn to the simple 15.Nxe5.

    What is that 15...f5? White can simply take, and you can't take back.

    Nobody is bothering about the blundered e5 pawn until move 19 (when the queen protects the h5 knight).

    20.Ba1 is ridiculous- isn't it? Practically every other move makes more sense.

    The ...g5-g4 plan does not seem to create any particular problem for white, and 25...Ng3?? is a nice gift. I cannot understand why white did not accept it, Black has absolutely nothing in return.

    Instead of 30.Ke2 white can play better 30.Nxf6+ with a small advantage, or even better the pretty 30.Nxe5!

    31.fg4? is a very bad move- white is still a little bit better by 31.Rh1! threatening to bring the other rook to g1, and you cannot save the knight due to the pin.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #5

    ChristianSoldier007

    im curious how does it protect the e-pawn?

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #6

    IM pfren

    ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

    im curious how does it protect the e-pawn?

    Who, and which?

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #7

    ChristianSoldier007

    how does Qb8 protect the pawn? It looks like it doesnt to me

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #8

    IM pfren

    Nobody said it does. Quite the opposite- it offers it for very dubious compensation.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #9

    ChristianSoldier007

    Dubious compensation? If played right black could get a space advantage and better piece activity. For example 12.dxe5 dxe5 13.Nxe5 c5 14.Nf3 c4 15.Re2 Bc5 to be followed by Rd8

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #10

    IM pfren

    ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

    Dubious compensation? If played right black could get a space advantage and better piece activity. For example 12.dxe5 dxe5 13.Nxe5 c5 14.Nf3 c4 15.Re2 Bc5 to be followed by Rd8

    I guess you mean 14.Nef3 (moving the other knight there is plain stupid). Then if Black plays 14...c4? (there is no point fixing the d3 square if you cannot put something there, and leave that poor knight staring at nowhere on a5) 15.e5 Nd5 16.Ne4 and Black can resign- white has a pawn more PLUS all his minor pieces aiming at the Black king.

    But apart from that white can simply play 14.Ng4 when Black has nothing for the pawn.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #11

    ChristianSoldier007

    what do you mean by Ngf3? There is no knight on the g file

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #12

    IM pfren

    It's Nef3, I have corrected it.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #13

    ChristianSoldier007

    e5 is good but I think black can do better than Nd5

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #14

    IM pfren

    ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

    e5 is good but I think black can do better than Nd5

    Like? A far as I'm concerned, Black is dead lost here already- not because he is a pawn down, but because white has a raging attack.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #15

    ChristianSoldier007

    Bxc3 and Nd7

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #16

    IM pfren

    ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

    Bxc3 and Nd7

    You obviously mean Bxf3. This loses a piece to 15...Bxf3 16.Qxf3 Nd7 17.Qh3 (or 17.Qf5)

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #17

    ChristianSoldier007

    yeah i know

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