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3 fold rule

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7th June 2008, 02:56am
#1
by boots9548
Memphis United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 104

i am fairly new to chess but do know that if same position with same players to move is repeated 3 times it is a draw. Well i checked someone 3 times with the same piece and they said it was a draw even though i checked him from 3 different squares i dont know if this is a draw or not i said since he moved his king onto different squares on each check and i moved my queen onto different squares the board positions were not the same. he said it did not matter because i used the same piece to check him 3 times. dont know if i am right or wrong but i believe im  right,any help?

7th June 2008, 03:00am
#2
by silentfilmstar13
Medford, OR United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2143
You are correct.  The same exact position must be repeated three times for a player to claim that it is drawn.
7th June 2008, 04:21pm
#3
by Marshal_Dillon
New Jersey United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 465
Yes, the EXACT position must be repeated 3 times. If you check someone, though, you also have to watch out for the perpetual check rule and be sure to make some other move that does not involve check at some point if you are playing for a win and not a draw. 
7th June 2008, 04:41pm
#4
by NM Reb
United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 7857
Were you both keeping score? Was it a tournament game?
8th November 2008, 06:07am
#5
by SteelGrip
Hampshire United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 7

The other player was wrong and you are correct. The same exact position must be repeated three times for a player to claim a drawn game. 

8th November 2008, 06:59am
#6
by TadDude
Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 3669
Marshal_Dillon wrote:
Yes, the EXACT position must be repeated 3 times. If you check someone, though, you also have to watch out for the perpetual check rule and be sure to make some other move that does not involve check at some point if you are playing for a win and not a draw. 

There is no longer a perpetual check rule. You will not find it in the FIDE Laws of Chess.

9th February 2009, 07:14am
#7
by jkettle
Columbia, TN United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 263
boots9548 wrote:

i am fairly new to chess but do know that if same position with same players to move is repeated 3 times it is a draw. Well i checked someone 3 times with the same piece and they said it was a draw even though i checked him from 3 different squares i dont know if this is a draw or not i said since he moved his king onto different squares on each check and i moved my queen onto different squares the board positions were not the same. he said it did not matter because i used the same piece to check him 3 times. dont know if i am right or wrong but i believe im  right,any help?


9th February 2009, 07:18am
#8
by jkettle
Columbia, TN United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 263

You aren't quite right, Boots.  The rule says if the same position occurs 3 times in a game, it is a draw.  Your checking him from different squares doesn't matter, as long as during that game the pieces in the game occupied the same positions 3 times.  It is not a repetition of moves, it is a repetion of position.  This rule is often misunderstood.  Good luck.

9th February 2009, 07:32am
#9
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009
TadDude wrote:
Marshal_Dillon wrote:
Yes, the EXACT position must be repeated 3 times. If you check someone, though, you also have to watch out for the perpetual check rule and be sure to make some other move that does not involve check at some point if you are playing for a win and not a draw. 

There is no longer a perpetual check rule. You will not find it in the FIDE Laws of Chess.


I did not know that!

But even when there was one, it said that you could claim a draw if it was possible for you to keep checking the opponent forever, no matter what the opponent did. It wasn't something you had to look out for, the opponent wasn't the one who could claim.

9th February 2009, 07:42am
#10
by RetGuvvie98
WinterHaven now - for a while United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 9385

that,   "But even when there was one, it said that you could claim a draw if it was possible for you to keep checking the opponent forever, no matter what the opponent did. It wasn't something you had to look out for, the opponent wasn't the one who could claim."

You can claim a draw because of 'no progress' in the game - whether you are the one with the material or your opponent -  - - - -   without having to demonstrate repetition of position 3 times - if your opponent is not making progress with an objective in mind - other than merely checking you again and again - while your time runs down (as he might hope to win on time).  The rules allow for a claim of 'insufficient losing chances'  under those circumstances and you get a moderate amount of time - and 5 seconds a move - to prove you would not lose.

9th February 2009, 07:45am
#11
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009

Hmm. But does that depend on the number of checks? Perhaps you are making progress with the checks, just as it is perfectly possible to make no progress when you don't make checks.

And at least FIDE's version of that rule only applies in sudden death situations where the claimant has less than three minutes left. Don't know about the USCF rule.

And the rule is certainly not called the perpetual check rule :-)

9th February 2009, 07:51am
#12
by NM Reb
United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 7857

In fide events you should call the arbiter and inform him you are claiming a draw on repetition of position BEFORE actually playing the move that repeats the position and inform him of your intended move. The arbiter will then reconstruct the game on another board to be sure the claim is correct and if it isnt the one making the claim will be penalised. The penalty for a faulty claim is normally a few minutes added to the opponents clock.

9th February 2009, 08:05am
#13
by Tom
Houston Texas United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1690

Sounds like your opponent is making up his own rules to keep from losing.  

 

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