Upgrade to Chess.com Premium!

A Question of Memory

Jump to forum:
 
11th November 2009, 06:34am
#1
by Shivsky
DFW, Texas United States
Member Since: Jun 2009
Member Points: 2190

There is much said about why having a good memory really helps one's chess. I tend to agree.

I've noticed that when I spend however little time studying, the entire lesson's substance transitions to "short term memory" (if I'm lucky) but not all of it quite makes the perilous voyage to my long-term memory ... putting things bluntly => I forget what I learn rather quickly.

As silly as that sounds.

Sure, if it was an opening I'm trying out, I could play a 100 blitz games to put some ideas to good use and that helps me remember them better ... but for key strategic concepts like conducting a minority attack or knowing how to exploit a color weakness, everything seems so brilliantly clear when I'm reading or going over a game but rarely the case when I get to try them out a few days later. I either forget that I need to do something strategically important WHEN the position calls for it or even worse, I remember things hazily and can't really transition to Step #2 of a plan that I started.

Is it just a matter of practice, practice and more practice until you get stuff like this right?

How do the strong players out there reinforce this learning process better?

Thanks in advance!

S.

11th November 2009, 10:10am
#2
by kunduk
kolkata India
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 964

i agree.. chess is directly proportional to good memory.. Smile

23rd November 2009, 07:41am
#3
by DMX21x1
Scotland
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 688

So the legend goes.  It's not just practice practice practice, there is also process process process.  Unfortunately the brain doesn't work the way we would like it. 

When you forget things that you learn quickly it's because your brain has decided you don't need the extra baggage.  Having a good memory means having a lot of stuff in there, a lot of which you probably no longer need.  This is where the cup should be emptied.  Laughing

If you want to memorise it badly, eventually you will but the brain will take its own time processing it.  Like a crappy 1970's computer.  Tongue out 

23rd November 2009, 08:06am
#4
by nuclearturkey
United Kingdom
Member Since: Aug 2009
Member Points: 1313
Shivsky wrote:

There is much said about why having a good memory really helps one's chess. I tend to agree.

I've noticed that when I spend however little time studying, the entire lesson's substance transitions to "short term memory" (if I'm lucky) but not all of it quite makes the perilous voyage to my long-term memory ... putting things bluntly => I forget what I learn rather quickly.

As silly as that sounds.

Sure, if it was an opening I'm trying out, I could play a 100 blitz games to put some ideas to good use and that helps me remember them better ... but for key strategic concepts like conducting a minority attack or knowing how to exploit a color weakness, everything seems so brilliantly clear when I'm reading or going over a game but rarely the case when I get to try them out a few days later. I either forget that I need to do something strategically important WHEN the position calls for it or even worse, I remember things hazily and can't really transition to Step #2 of a plan that I started.

Is it just a matter of practice, practice and more practice until you get stuff like this right?

How do the strong players out there reinforce this learning process better?

Thanks in advance!

S.


Firstly, are you just casually skimming through the games and if it's annotated the authors notes? Or actually trying to find the moves/ analyze the positions yourself 1st? If the former don't expect anything to sink in.

Another good method on top of that is discussed in Mark Dvoretsky's book on positional play. He says that when you come to a crucial position, draw a diagram of it and write down in your own words the minimum features of the position to consider in order to find the right plans for both you and your opponent. This method works for any stage of the game.

Of course as well as this putting all the ideas you've learned into practice in games is vital as well...

23rd November 2009, 08:21am
#5
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 964
DMX21x1 wrote:

So the legend goes.  It's not just practice practice practice, there is also process process process.  Unfortunately the brain doesn't work the way we would like it. 


I disagree. It IS just "practice, practice, practice".

If you have trouble remembering what you read, then go back and read it again. Or read other material that covers the same concepts. Or pick a particular concept and play games afterward where you make that one concept your primary concern during the game, so you're thinking about it primarily.

But in the end, quantity of times that you use/read the same material is the most important thing when it comes to retaining it. Just like the original poster said that 100 blitz games with an opening will help remember the key points of that opening, the same holds true for all areas of the game.

--Fromper

23rd November 2009, 09:06am
#6
by HotFlow
KL, Malaysia Malaysia
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2512

I find explaining what you have learnt to someone else helps it sink in, like a rehearsal in some ways.

23rd November 2009, 09:13am
#7
by Shivsky
DFW, Texas United States
Member Since: Jun 2009
Member Points: 2190
nuclearturkey wrote:

Another good method on top of that is discussed in Mark Dvoretsky's book on positional play. He says that when you come to a crucial position, draw a diagram of it and write down in your own words the minimum features of the position to consider in order to find the right plans for both you and your opponent. This method works for any stage of the game.

 Very interesting ... writing down "what it takes to figure out the right plan" seems like something I might start trying.

23rd November 2009, 10:25am
#8
by JG27Pyth
NYC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2720
Fromper wrote:
DMX21x1 wrote:

So the legend goes.  It's not just practice practice practice, there is also process process process.  Unfortunately the brain doesn't work the way we would like it. 


I disagree. It IS just "practice, practice, practice".

If you have trouble remembering what you read, then go back and read it again. Or read other material that covers the same concepts. Or pick a particular concept and play games afterward where you make that one concept your primary concern during the game, so you're thinking about it primarily.

But in the end, quantity of times that you use/read the same material is the most important thing when it comes to retaining it. Just like the original poster said that 100 blitz games with an opening will help remember the key points of that opening, the same holds true for all areas of the game.

--Fromper


As someone with a very poor memory I can assure you this is NOT true. The process by which you memorize can greatly impact the memorization. I play music... I have a very hard time memorizing repertoire. I can play a piece of music over a hundred times and still my memory fails. But when I work out the music by by ear, from a recording, this seems to set the tune in memory cement.  The second method is much more hard work -- but it works far far better! Process matters!

I've found, in general, mastery of complex material is greatly enhanced by really engaging with it deeply rather than rote work... this is the secret of teaching something to learn it which has also been mentioned. It works.

23rd November 2009, 06:03pm
#9
by HankStamper
Duncan, BC Canada
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 126

Some tidbits from the psychology of learning:

1.  Practice effect:  the more one practices the better one gets.

2.  Learning style:  each has his/her own learning style.   What way do you learn best?  Seeing it in your mind as a picture?  Do you need to actually go through the physical motions?  Or, is reciting it in your mind the most effective way to get it burned into the circuits?  Know your style and concentrate on that.  But, supplement with other modes. 

3.  Test:  test yourself.  Memorise 7 moves of a book opening, for example, and then test yourself.  Do this for 2 or three days until you get it down pat.  Then wait a couple of days and do it all over again.  Then go through that sequence again.  And again.  In other words, you set up a situation in which you "need" to use the information over and over. 

4.  Make it concrete and instrumental (the 'real world'):  as someone else noted, play a lot of games (or maybe set up situations in a chess engine) to drill yourself on the concept. 

5.  Practice, practice, practice.

There is a very interesting body of research in psychology about so-called "child geniuses" such as Motzart (and contemporary examples).  Motzart was good as a kid and so quite interesting but he did not produce master work.  He was good because playing piano was just about all his father had him do!  With all that practice, of course he would be a phenom as a kid.  By the time he was 25, however, he had about 22 years of solid practice and, of course he was pretty good.  Anyone with 22 years of solid practice at piano and composing at any age would be pretty good.  Of course he had some genitic element that helpled but imagine what sort of a chess player a person could be if they practiced intently for 5 hours a day for 22 years!  If that person was 25 years old we would call them a chess genius.  Practice makes perfect.

This from a rank patzer. 

24th November 2009, 05:45am
#10
by DMX21x1
Scotland
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 688
Shivsky wrote:
nuclearturkey wrote:

Another good method on top of that is discussed in Mark Dvoretsky's book on positional play. He says that when you come to a crucial position, draw a diagram of it and write down in your own words the minimum features of the position to consider in order to find the right plans for both you and your opponent. This method works for any stage of the game.

 Very interesting ... writing down "what it takes to figure out the right plan" seems like something I might start trying.


 This is a very good way of memorising.  If I find a situation in life overly complicated I type up all the different aspects to it and sort of iron it out in my head from there.  To put it in your own words seems to make it easier to memorise somehow.  Still, you've got to make sure you're right on the ball with the facts. 

I've never tried it with Chess before, don't see why it wouldn't work. 

24th November 2009, 05:46am
#11
by DMX21x1
Scotland
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 688
Fromper wrote:
DMX21x1 wrote:

So the legend goes.  It's not just practice practice practice, there is also process process process.  Unfortunately the brain doesn't work the way we would like it. 


I disagree. It IS just "practice, practice, practice".

If you have trouble remembering what you read, then go back and read it again. Or read other material that covers the same concepts. Or pick a particular concept and play games afterward where you make that one concept your primary concern during the game, so you're thinking about it primarily.

But in the end, quantity of times that you use/read the same material is the most important thing when it comes to retaining it. Just like the original poster said that 100 blitz games with an opening will help remember the key points of that opening, the same holds true for all areas of the game.

--Fromper


 What is practice?  It's a process. 

24th November 2009, 03:51pm
#12
by BigTy
B.C Canada
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 414

Repetition is alright but it isn't the best way because it tends to stay in short-term memory. If you really want to remember things well, you must put them into long term memory. The best way to remember something for a long time is to understand it. When memorizing an opening for example, try to understand why each and every move is played. If the book doesn't tell you why something is good or bad, then figure it out for yourself. Test yourself not so much by repeating the moves, but by figuring out why a different move or variation is inferior to the one in the book. After you are done playing a game, look at the first non-book move in the opening. Try to figure out if it was good or bad, and how it could be taken advantage of. Once you do this, then look it up in the book and compare your analysis with that of the author.

 

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.