Hi folks,

I just wanted some rules clarification regarding CC chess. You are allowed to use reference books, and I am assuming this includes endgame books. Are you allowed to use online endgame tablebases?

Cheers,

ED.

No, tablebases aren't allowed. Databases of games are.

No. Tablebases, online or otherwise are NOT allowed.

For those who might be unaware what these are, they are basically a database where you can put in your endgame position, and it will tell you what move to make to force a win (if possible). 

What is a tablebase, btw?

Ok, cheers guys. Thought I'd better check! You've saved me from an ignominious account suspension!

It's a tricky thing, playing correspondance online. The lines between what is and is not allowed is getting more and more blurred in this information age.

Just don´t use any assistance of any kind and you will be fine!!

you are allowed to use the game explorer or other kinds of opening database though， but only in corr。 chess

That was obvious.

 lol

This discussion may enlighten.

I've often wondered, just how far are you supposed to use an "opening database"? Move 10, 15, 20? Or can you theoretically follow it to mate after 60 moves?

I started a thread a while ago which discussed the matter:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/cheating-perameters

I was wondering exactly the same thing. It turns out that most games become unique a lot quicker than you imagine, typically within 10-15 moves. On this thread I ran an experiment which was "database vs. database" as it were, using the top rated moves, and it barely got to a middlegame. So following the database to mate is largely impossible. Also, I have found to my cost that overuse of the database, with no understanding of the ideas behind it, costs you dearly against stronger players. With this in mind, it is right that the database is legal, as it is only really possible to use it as a reference.

Bear in mind that there are only a few hundred thousand games on the database as well. Going through it is like a 'reverse exponential' in a way, so it is swiftly exhausted.

I once followed (as did my opponent) an entire game in Games Explorer, all the way to resignation. Totally allowed. But bizarre. It was in a tournament, and I lost the other game to this opponent.

Don't remember the opponent's name or the tournament though.

Take this example:

#Please do not discuss the game, as It is current. This is only to make the point#

I'm playing a Scotch at the moment, which is a popular alternative to the Spanish. The game has thus far run:

What's the difference between using an opening database against an online opponent and having Kasparov make the first 10-15 moves for you?  That's about 1/3 of the game! 

I'm not sure but I get the impression guys who do this don't actually understand why each move was made in relation to the position during the opening and therefore don't realise what they're getting into mid game, in which case they are robbing themselves of knowledge.  If they did understand there would be no need to use the database.

Personally I have about 4 or 5 openings locked down in my head that I understand pretty well, not as well as I would like.  Anything outside of that and I'm out of my depth but I'd rather find out the hard way than consult an opening book.  The burnt hand teaches the best. 

 Your absolutely right, which is why the opening database should be used with care. "The strong move is weak if incorrectly followed up" as Kinscrucher has said.

DMX21x1 wrote:

What's the difference between using an opening database against an online opponent and having Kasparov make the first 10-15 moves for you?  That's about 1/3 of the game! 

It's also pretty much a fantasy, unless the opponent is also using the database or opening books. And you still need to choose the moves from the database, it doesn't say "this move is best".

I'm not sure but I get the impression guys who do this don't actually understand why each move was made in relation to the position during the opening and therefore don't realise what they're getting into mid game, in which case they are robbing themselves of knowledge.  If they did understand there would be no need to use the database.

Yes, probably. There are obviously downsides.

Personally I have about 4 or 5 openings locked down in my head that I understand pretty well, not as well as I would like.  Anything outside of that and I'm out of my depth but I'd rather find out the hard way than consult an opening book.  The burnt hand teaches the best. 

And other people have other preferences. I have lots of opening theory from various sources written down as Scid databases, and I use databases. Learning something is nice, but not the main point of a chess game for me -- the main point is trying to win the game.