bishops, good or bad

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21st January 2009, 10:48am
#1
by jmesser
Mcdonough, Ga United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 23

Any help on whether a givin bishop is good or bad i dont know the difference.

21st January 2009, 11:06am
#2
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 450

Bishops only move on one color squares. Each player has one bishop that only moves on the light squares and one that only moves on the dark squares.

If your pawns in the center of the board are fixed on the same color squares as one of your bishops, that really limits the mobility of that bishop, so it's called a bad bishop. If you have a bishop that travels on different squares than the ones where your center pawns are fixed, then that's a good bishop.

When there are few center pawns, or the pawns aren't fixed, the distinction becomes less important. But when you're dealing with closed pawn centers, your bishop can be worthless if it can't get past your own pawns to attack the enemy, so that's when this stuff is very important.

21st January 2009, 01:56pm
#3
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 23162

A Bishop is slightly better than a Knight, so don't give up a Bishop for a Knight, maybe a Castle though.

21st January 2009, 06:58pm
#4
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 450
rich wrote:

A Bishop is slightly better than a Knight, so don't give up a Bishop for a Knight, maybe a Castle though.


I hope you're kidding here. Bishops vs knight is a long standing debate. The answer is that they're roughly equal with each being superior in different situations.

21st January 2009, 08:28pm
#5
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2345

I don't know where this can go. On one hand we have Fromper, who actually can play chess and knows about chess, and can read with comprehension a poster's question and offer a pertinent response. Then we have rich.

21st January 2009, 08:39pm
#6
by awesmond
plano texas United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 296
goldendog wrote:

I don't know where this can go. On one hand we have Fromper, who actually can play chess and knows about chess, and can read with comprehension a poster's question and offer a pertinent response. Then we have rich.

haha


21st January 2009, 08:46pm
#7
by BasicLvrCH8r
Kansas United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 1605
goldendog wrote:

I don't know where this can go. On one hand we have Fromper, who actually can play chess and knows about chess, and can read with comprehension a poster's question and offer a pertinent response. Then we have rich.


Rich has a tendency not to read the posts after the original, "because reading them would be silly". Look at the thread "Erik owes us yet another apology", and see rich's arguments. You'll get a good laugh.

21st January 2009, 10:22pm
#8
by JetSetter
United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 195

To add to Fromper's already good explanation...a Bad Bishop could have great mobility, but if it's cut off from where all the action is (e.g. cannot protect an attacked king) then it would be Bad.

Just to really mess your head, sometimes a "bad" bishop (blocked by all its pawns) is "good" in that it supports key pawns that are launching points for attacks.

Hehe...isn't chess fun?

23rd January 2009, 05:09am
#9
by jmesser
Mcdonough, Ga United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 23

Thanks for the info, would then a dark bishop of mine be considered "bad" if my opponet has his pawns positioned diagonaly on all dark squares?

23rd January 2009, 05:39am
#10
by TalFan
Perth Australia
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 770

That's like asking if women are good or bad.

23rd January 2009, 05:42am
#11
by IPA-Ray
South Park, PA United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 404

Some women are very good when they are bad!

23rd January 2009, 05:48am
#12
by rich
My Home United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 23162

Two Bishops are better than two Knights even I find it better.

23rd January 2009, 09:23am
#13
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 450
jmesser wrote:

Thanks for the info, would then a dark bishop of mine be considered "bad" if my opponet has his pawns positioned diagonaly on all dark squares?


Technically, no. Your bishop would be limited in the scope of its movements if your opponent's pawns attack all or most of the squares that it can move to. But because your own pawns aren't on the dark squares blocking it from moving at all, at least it does have those legal moves, so technically, it's a good bishop. There might even be a situation where it would be advantageous to sacrifice your bishop for a pawn or two to break open a closed pawn center in that situation, which you couldn't do if your bishop was on the light squares with your own pawns and couldn't attack the enemy pawns on the dark squares.

In other words, sometimes it's good to have a bad bishop, and sometimes it's bad to have a good bishop. As with everything in chess, there are exceptions to every rule. But technically speaking, the terms "good bishop" and "bad bishop" only apply to whether your bishop is traveling on the same color squares as your central pawns.

23rd January 2009, 09:24am
#14
by Fromper
Boynton Beach, FL United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 450
goldendog wrote:

I don't know where this can go. On one hand we have Fromper, who actually can play chess and knows about chess, and can read with comprehension a poster's question and offer a pertinent response. Then we have rich.


I think you greatly overestimate my playing ability. :p

23rd January 2009, 09:45am
#15
by HotFlow
KL, Malaysia Malaysia
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2256

In general they are good, just don't leave them alone in a room full of quire boys? uh-oh?

23rd January 2009, 10:12am
#16
by ayanks03
New York United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 27

My understanding has always been that they are equal... however I personally start my attack with bishops....

for me, a bishop is more valuable in the begining of the game when starting my opening....

at the end of the game I have more success with the Knight.... just from what I have seen, I can get more pawns with the KNIGHT when there are few pieces on the board.... obviously every game is different....

in conclusion.... (for me) start - bishops are more valuable... end - knights are more valuable... reality - ill exchange a bishop for a knight and position as well as exchanging a knight for a bishop and position.... 

23rd January 2009, 10:18am
#17
by Ghoti_Heads
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 25

Also, with the opponents pieces being on the same color as your bishop, they are potential targets.  So even though your mobility may be restricted for the time being, if the oppourtunity presents itself, a board full of targets for a bishop can be very devastating for your opponent.

24th January 2009, 09:58am
#18
by jmesser
Mcdonough, Ga United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 23

perhaps the answer to the bishop or knight debate is this, neither one is really better than the other and the best situation would be to have one knight and one bishop, providing its your "good" bishop.

24th January 2009, 10:15am
#19
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4147

Many people dont like the french defense because of the "bad bishop" black has to deal with after black plays 1...e6 and 2....d5 .  Every french player knows what a pain this "bad bishop" can be and the primary problem for the black player is often to solve the problem of this bishop. There are lines in the french where white has pawns on e5,d4,f4 and his dark squared bishop is also "bad" with such a pawn structure.  A "bad" bishop can be active or passive , an active one isnt as bad as a passive one .

 

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