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6th November 2009, 02:01am
#1
by ErrantDeeds
London England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 579

I got an interesting call from a friend last night. Knowing I was in to chess, he wanted my opinion. He works in an internet cafe that's specifically designed for people with physical and learning disabilities. One of his clients is blind, and asked him the other day if he could use the computers to play chess, and how this would be done. My friend, being a conscientious chap, did some research and found a company in Australia that produced chess software for the blind and partially sighted.

Now you can imagine, this raised all sorts of questions with me. I know that strong players can play blindfold chess, and hold the details of the position in their head, but this is extremely difficult. I've been playing the game for about 5 years now, and I can't do it, not even to a reasonbable degree of accuracy. What hope does someone have when they are a beginner? Apparently, the software uses vocal cues to describe what square you are on, what piece is occupying it, and what pieces are attacking and defending it, and from where. Given the information in this format, I think I would struggle to maintain an accurate idea of what's happening to a single square, let alone a whole board!

My friend is sending me a copy of the software today, so I'll have a look at it. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Is it possible for a blind person to learn the game of chess? That would be amazing.

ED.

6th November 2009, 02:14am
#2
by rich
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 27854

That's unusual, I think it will take a long time for the blind person to learn it because they have never seen a chess piece.

6th November 2009, 02:32am
#3
by ErrantDeeds
London England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 579

I guess it would still be a game... If you had two beginners playing, the winner would be not only who could play the better chess, but who could remember the details of the board better. I know the software gives warnings of illegal moves.

6th November 2009, 02:50am
#4
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009

Usually blind players use a special board, on which they can touch the pieces to feel the position (picture: http://leeharps.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/Chess-Board2.jpg -- the black pieces have tiny points on top. Also http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidfarrant/3243667274/).

Perhaps they can use such a board next to the computer, and only need to know what the last move is, and how to enter a new one?

6th November 2009, 05:07am
#5
by masterbeater69
Tannersville United States
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 6

It all depends on the individuals ability to visualize.  The key to visualizing is the cut the board into quarters, and remember each quarter in short term memory.  Then concentrate on the quadrant you want to change.  It gets a little tricky when your pieces are moving from on quadrant to another.  At least that is how I do it.

6th November 2009, 05:17am
#6
by ErrantDeeds
London England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 579
masterbeater69 wrote:

It all depends on the individuals ability to visualize.  The key to visualizing is the cut the board into quarters, and remember each quarter in short term memory.  Then concentrate on the quadrant you want to change.  It gets a little tricky when your pieces are moving from on quadrant to another.  At least that is how I do it.


 Perhaps someone who has been blind all their life will naturally be better at this kind of memory visualisation, having spent their whole life using their memory to navigate around their home/place of work/local area etc. Maybe this honed skill would be useful in chess...

6th November 2009, 05:21am
#7
by Syntax_error
Nowhere Canada
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 96

It is not tough to play "blind" chess, I can play one board blind after playing chess seriously for six months.

6th November 2009, 05:25am
#8
by ErrantDeeds
London England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 579
Syntax_error wrote:

It is not tough to play "blind" chess, I can play one board blind after playing chess seriously for six months.


 That's impressive. Is this typical? Can most players do this?

6th November 2009, 05:31am
#9
by masterbeater69
Tannersville United States
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 6
ErrantDeeds wrote:
Syntax_error wrote:

It is not tough to play "blind" chess, I can play one board blind after playing chess seriously for six months.


 That's impressive. Is this typical? Can most players do this?


It took me around six months.  Then again my chess coach emphasesd this aspect of the game.  Back to the topic when I was playing scholastic chess one of the schools we played against had a blind player.  Using a special board it took her 6 month to obtain a 1000 uscf rating.

6th November 2009, 10:52am
#10
by DMX21x1
Scotland
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 688

Maybe the guy wasn't always blind. I did see a movie years ago, I never found out what it was called, about an alcoholic who ends up in jail and plays Chess just with the notation, no pieces, no board, its all in his head. He discovers he's good at it and from there he goes on to leave jail, win a Chess tournament yadda yadda. It made an impression on me then. I've never tried it but if I lost my sight I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose my Chess along with it. 

6th November 2009, 11:01am
#11
by rooperi
Gamtoos River Mouth South Africa
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 10778

Every year we play against the Braille Club in the League here, (Well till a year or two ago anyway)

We normally play on two boards, One normal, amd one special board, where the pieces have pegs that fit into holes in the board. The blind player examines the board by touch, moves on his board and speaks his move. You then duplicate the move on your own board. On your turn, you move on your own board, and speak your move, which he then duplicates.

If no braille clocks are available, it is considered good form to keep him updated about the time.

How they would translate this to computer play, I have no idea.

6th November 2009, 12:45pm
#12
by Ricardo_Morro
Bridgeport, CT United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 892

I have lost every game I ever played against a blind person. They played on the special touchy-feely board and didn't miss a thing. Since there are dedicated chess computers that are like normal 3-D chess sets, it should be possible to adapt one of these for the blind. Then the trick would be the interface between the Internet and the dedicated chess computer.

6th November 2009, 10:04pm
#13
by 17000mph
United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 703

I think Ray Charles played chess and had a 1400 rating, (I'll need to verify this.) He wasn't born blind, I don't think, so he may have had a slight advantage over someone who is born blind.

7th November 2009, 03:30pm
#14
by 17000mph
United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 703

Ray Charles did in fact play chess and was quite good at it, although I haven't been able to verify the ranking. He went blind at the age of 6.

8th November 2009, 01:11pm
#15
by 17000mph
United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 703

Here's a link to one of Ray Charles' games: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1266243

8th November 2009, 01:27pm
#16
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607

There have been blind masters.

9th January 2010, 11:51pm
#17
by davidsmeaton
traveling ... this way --> Australia
Member Since: Jun 2009
Member Points: 202

i was about to start a new topic when the search function lead me here.

i'm quite interested in finding out more about blind chess. i used to work with physically handicapped people and this would be an excellent tool for memory.

are there blind chess tournaments and blind world champions? i ask out of honest curiousity ... anyone know any good blind players? perhaps even here on chess.com?

finally, is chess.com able to support blind players? it'd be nice to know that either the site itself (or support software) would allow blind players to compete here.

... although, wouldn't it be gutting to get beaten by someone who's never seen a chess piece!! LOL

10th January 2010, 01:05am
#18
by Estragon
United States
Member Since: Jun 2009
Member Points: 4351
tonydal wrote:

There have been blind masters.


 Ah, yes, the fabled Al Sandrin.  I never met him, but I was able to play James Slagle several times in Virginia.  He was a high 1700 to low 1900 strength player in the '70s, so probably add 200 points or so for modern USCF ratings.  He had the Braille board, the pieces had pegs on the bottom which fit into holes on the squares so they wouldn't be displaced.  Each piece also had a tiny Braille symbol on top so he could instantly know what it was.  The dark squares were also sunken slightly, so he could easily tell what color a square was.

Blind players with these special sets are allowed to "touch" the pieces as they think, it's the only way they can "see" them to consider a move.  Most interesting was Jim's clock - it was also Braille, a regular analog chess clock, but there was no glass or plastic covering the hands and face.  The numbers and hands had Braille symbols on them, and he would touch it from time to time to gauge our respective time.  He announced his move in notation, and I made it on "my" board, and vice versa.  He recorded the moves by typing them into a small Braille typewriter, which punched out Braille dots on paper about the width of adding-machine paper.

He was a gentleman and pleasure to play, and I believe won the US Blind Championship a couple of times.  The only thing which took some getting used to was the slight rattling of his pieces as he "thought."

8th March 2010, 02:59am
#19
by RomaCris
Italy
Member Since: Mar 2010
Member Points: 1
davidsmeaton wrote:

i was about to start a new topic when the search function lead me here.

i'm quite interested in finding out more about blind chess. i used to work with physically handicapped people and this would be an excellent tool for memory.

are there blind chess tournaments and blind world champions? i ask out of honest curiousity ... anyone know any good blind players? perhaps even here on chess.com?

finally, is chess.com able to support blind players? it'd be nice to know that either the site itself (or support software) would allow blind players to compete here.

... although, wouldn't it be gutting to get beaten by someone who's never seen a chess piece!! LOL


 Hi, I am a visual impaired beginner and I am trying to play on chess.com but usually, when I play online, I can write algebric notation  (png) in a form field or sendig moves  using a combobox ...

Does anyone knows if on chess.com this option is possible?As visual impaired we use a screenreader on a standard pc but we don't use mouse clickin and a screenreader is not able to read graphics or similar aplications .. I am playing chess on other web servers and correspondence  as fics Gk stansco and I hope this will be possible on Chess.com too! :-) ciao     

8th March 2010, 03:56am
#20
by Atos
Montenegro
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 4193
Estragon wrote:

Blind players with these special sets are allowed to "touch" the pieces as they think, it's the only way they can "see" them to consider a move.  


Well, they could use annotation instead, as in blindfolded chess. Somehow I don't imagine that touching the board would help much.

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