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Can intelligent person suck at chess, forever?

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abinoosh

Cry Back to the OP - you were stumped as to why the computer made a certain move with a rook. I've quit worrying about it. I'm in a similar boat, picking it up after a long period of dormancy. And I'm probably doing it wrong. But here is what is working for me:

- regular but not too intensive doses of theory, when I feel stuck. Because I am so ignorant I can pick sources almost at random - from the Internet or at the used bookstore. Reading about the importance of occupying the center and keeping pieces mobile means more to me if I've already had some experience. My mistakes make the advice more relevant.

- starting out low on a computer application that probably sucks - the Chess that came on my Mac. It openings are very formulaic - at a given level it will start the same every time. So I would study a little about that particular opening, but again, not too intensively.

- when I started winning at low levels, I'd make a screenshot of the game log. Then I would play similar games multiple times, from black and white. Sometimes I'd abort after a few moves and start over. Some kind of visual or muscle memory came into play. I didn't so much memorize sequences as play a little animation in my head.

- once I was very comfortable at a level I would noodge the slider up in the tiniest increment I could manage, and start repeating the process. Again,  at a given level it plays the same opening ALL THE TIME. If I was white I had more flexibility. I'd try to duplicate a game I won at a lower level and look for where the computer started branching out with better decisions.

Sometimes I think I beat the computer because my moves are irrational, from its point of view. But the stakes are low. If something turns into a bloodbath I just start over, riffing a little on the sequence. Once I've done that the theory sticks better.

So I go back and forth a lot, reading, puzzles, playing slowly, playing fast. I haven't been playing people, online or OTB and I worry a little that the few skills I've developed will have to be redeveloped, when dealing with a board and actual pieces as opposed to a bird's-eye view on a keyboard and a real person.

It seems to help that usually I am not consciously trying to memorize. It also helps to be underemployed.

Finally, I'm just accepting my level of play, for now. I used to play tournament Scrabble and won lower-seeded divisions - "the cream of the crap." Other people worked much harder at it. I found a level where I made a decent sparring partner for a better player. So that's pretty much where I am with chess, but the basic deal is, having fun and staying loose seem to help me, and the computer doesn't care how often I start over or retract a move. My reward comes from getting better, not from being good. 

Elubas

"in five months ive played or studied 50+ hours a week:"

This doesn't give enough information -- HOW did you do that? What did the studying entail? How much passion did you put into it? How enthusiastic were you about the logic of the positions you were looking at? When you were learning a complicated position, where you fascinated or frustrated by its difficulty? If you were reading a chess book, were you actively involved, trying to guess the moves, or were you just passively reading the material without testing your understanding of it? It's not just about how much time you spent on it, it's about what you were actually doing during this time.

People often use the idea that one can spend a large quantity of time and not get better as an argument for the "talent or not" theory. What they often don't consider, is the quality of that time for those who failed.

abinoosh

Embarassed Forget what I said about getting 'better' - all this is premised on the idea that slider-to-the-right = stronger. My Mac "Chess" program - different from MacChess, I gather - must be very weak. At .75 strength I'm getting mate in 19 moves of often reckless play. It may be good for my confidence, but overall strategy and tactics? Pshaw.

However I stand by the experience of making mistakes and analyzing afterward. It's amazing to see how the other player's pieces can keep him/her essentially immobile. An opponent's weak pawn, stuck in a file, uncaptured, can be your best friend. I'm sure yards of theory have been written on this, yet the (virtual) "real world" experience makes it real for this recreational player.

Do it for fun, for love of the game, and improvement will come - but my experience is apparently of very weak software.

I literally can't post without emoticons. Long story. Just remember: There's always a chance you're are a prodigy at something you've never tried.

gabrielconroy

I'm definitely having a good go at it.

abinoosh
gabrielconroy wrote:

I'm definitely having a good go at it.

Wish I were in England. It's very hot where I live. I decided it wasn't a good year to visit, what with the Olympics and Jubilee. But I love the UK.

"Having a good go" sounds like fun. To the OP, don't take it too seriously. It really is a game, and there are people posting new threads that know a lot less than you do.

netzach

Can intelligent person suck at chess, forever?

In theory should have some capabality at chess but likely jumped-up-opinionated imbecile at everything else.

Yereslov

A strong chess player is just that.

Intelligence has really nothing to do with chess.

A child prodigy might excel at the piano and fail in the field of science.

Bobby Fischer did not have a IQ 0f 180 as some sites claim. He barely read anything besides chess books.

Overall, his life revolved around chess. His obsession and deep hatred for losing is what made him a World Champion.

His pathetic comments about 9/11, Jews, and the World Government just happened to reinforce that view.

netzach
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abinoosh

Fischer was intelligent. Sociopaths often are. But maybe we can agree he was a special case. "Intelligence" doesn't help much if you can't distinguish between reality and fantasy (he was delusional, as well as being a sociopath). A potent combination for winning, in his prime. After that he quickly wore out his welcome except in Iceland IIRC.

To the OP, put any effort in and you'll probably win pickup games in some venues. And if you lose, no worries. In my competitive Scrabble experience, it made me popular, as long as I could offer credible opposition. It would be inetersting to know the toughest public pickup venues. Washington Square? I don't know, someone might.

TheGrobe

Still more armchair psychiatry. Sociopath now?

_HuRRiiCaNe_

I agree most sociopaths are highly intelligent

For the OP if you want to improve STOP PLAYING BULLET CHESS

nameno1had

I find most people who engage in psychological warfare have mental and or emotional problems. What is your excuse Grub?

ChessSponge

As everyone else said, stop with the bullet/speed chess for now. I believe that form of chess can represent your abilities but tends to not really improve them.

The brain holds onto information that is thought about hard for a period of time. With bullet chess you don't have time to think long on the moves so your brain isn't gaining long term knowledge. With regular length chess you can spend time thinking over any given move and your brain will hold onto some of that knowledge and overtime you will get better, learn and improve.

 

You could do the same with bullet chess if after each game you spend a good 30 minutes going over your games and thinking about each move and what else you could have done and why. Are you analysing your games? Have you posted any games in the Analysis forums to have others look over your analysis and let you know where you are thinking right and wrong?

ChazR

I have been thinking about your question.  No, you cannot suck forever, although I wish Chrisr2212 woul try.  The reason you cannot suck into eternity is because you are going to die.

Yereslov
ChessSponge wrote:

As everyone else said, stop with the bullet/speed chess for now. I believe that form of chess can represent your abilities but tends to not really improve them.

The brain holds onto information that is thought about hard for a period of time. With bullet chess you don't have time to think long on the moves so your brain isn't gaining long term knowledge. With regular length chess you can spend time thinking over any given move and your brain will hold onto some of that knowledge and overtime you will get better, learn and improve.

 

You could do the same with bullet chess if after each game you spend a good 30 minutes going over your games and thinking about each move and what else you could have done and why. Are you analysing your games? Have you posted any games in the Analysis forums to have others look over your analysis and let you know where you are thinking right and wrong?

That's contrary to what bullet players claim.

They claim that by playing bullet you get better in longer games because your mind is thinking much faster in a much slower game, thus resulting in far better positions.

_HuRRiiCaNe_

ANd whose side are you on, those Bullet claims are false

Here_Is_Plenty

"Can intelligent person suck at chess, forever?" - I'll let you know when I live forever...

Mithras

Maybe

ChessSponge
Yereslov wrote:
ChessSponge wrote:

As everyone else said, stop with the bullet/speed chess for now. I believe that form of chess can represent your abilities but tends to not really improve them.

The brain holds onto information that is thought about hard for a period of time. With bullet chess you don't have time to think long on the moves so your brain isn't gaining long term knowledge. With regular length chess you can spend time thinking over any given move and your brain will hold onto some of that knowledge and overtime you will get better, learn and improve.

 

You could do the same with bullet chess if after each game you spend a good 30 minutes going over your games and thinking about each move and what else you could have done and why. Are you analysing your games? Have you posted any games in the Analysis forums to have others look over your analysis and let you know where you are thinking right and wrong?

That's contrary to what bullet players claim.

They claim that by playing bullet you get better in longer games because your mind is thinking much faster in a much slower game, thus resulting in far better positions.


There have been many studies done on the human mind (not specifically related to chess) that shows thinking over something for a long period of time increases learning and memory. I wouldn't listen to the bullet players.

waffllemaster

Chess is like any skill, put in time and you'll get better.  You woudln't expect yourself to paint or play the piano at an intermediate level after screwing around for less than a year would you?  The potential for skill in chess is as immense as the greatest undertakings available to people.

5 months of training will still put you squarely in the beginner ranks, but 5 months of bullet I wouldn't call training at all.  Your rating is where it should be.  Play slow games (tournaments).  Play often.  Read books.  Get a coach.